pha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n\n<p>Featured Image: <em>Greek architecture of a rock archway in Crete</em> by Lusp (Luke) found on WordPress Photos</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Don&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? </strong></p>\n\n\n\n<form class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-form ngl-form ngl-portrait\" action=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/\" method=\"post\"><div class=\"ngl-form-container\"><div class=\"ngl-form-field\"><label class=\"ngl-form-label\" for=\"ngl_email\"><br />Type in your Email address to subscribe.</label><div class=\"ngl-form-input\"><input type=\"email\" class=\"ngl-form-input-text\" name=\"ngl_email\" id=\"ngl_email\" /></div></div><button type=\"submit\" class=\"ngl-form-button\">Subscribe</button><p class=\"ngl-form-text\">We hate spam, too and won&#8217;t give your email address to anyone except Mailchimp to send out our Weekend Edition</p></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay\"><div class=\"ngl-message-svg-wrap\"></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay-text\">Thanks for subscribing.</div></div><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_list_id\" id=\"ngl_list_id\" value=\"26f81bd8ae\" /><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_double_optin\" id=\"ngl_double_optin\" value=\"yes\" /></form>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 03 Jun 2023 12:30:29 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:25;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:64:\"Post Status: Launching a WordPress Product in Public: Session 15\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"https://poststatus.com/?p=149540\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:74:\"https://poststatus.com/launching-a-wordpress-product-in-public-session-15/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:54110:\"<p><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#h-transcript\">Transcript</a> ↓</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/coreymaass\">Corey Maass</a> discuss their progress on a project related to image generation and sharing. They explore the use of Open Graph (OG) images, social media platforms, and the importance of consistent branding. They mention the need for a logo and discuss the design concept, leaning towards a fun and vibrant style. They also touch on website development, pricing, and marketing assets. The conversation revolves around simplifying the image generation process and creating a user-friendly product. Overall, they aim to finalize the project&#8217;s features, branding, and logo to move forward with the launch.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Top Takeaways:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Logo and Branding: </strong>The importance of creating a logo and establishing a consistent branding for your project. You want a logo that represents image generation in a fun and vibrant way, potentially incorporating bright colors and a big, fun font. It should look good on different merchandise items like t-shirts and baseball caps.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Image Generation and Sharing:</strong> The main focus of your project is image generation and sharing. Using a logo generation tool and exploring concepts related to image generation, sharing, and open graph images. The goal is to make the process of generating and sharing images easy and efficient for users.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Project Progress: </strong>The progress of the project, including bug fixes and updates. The plan is to address the bugs and implement additional features and improvements. Once the sitewide and post-level functionalities are handled, the project will be ready to share with others. Defining the project&#8217;s style, including the logo and overall branding, is an important next step</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-mentioned-in-the-show\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f517.png\" alt=\"🔗\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Mentioned in the show:</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://crop.express/\">Crop.Express</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.com/\">WordPress</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://openai.com/\">OpenAI</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/\">Post Status</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.wpbeginner.com/\">WP Beginner</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.fiverr.com/\">Fiverr</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://central.wordcamp.org/\">WordCamp</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://makelogo.ai/\">MakeLogo.ai</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/vovafeldman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor\">Vova Feldman</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/syedbalkhi\">Syed Balkhi</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://ogp.me/\">Open Graph Image</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-you-can-follow-post-status-and-our-guests-on-twitter\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f426.png\" alt=\"🐦\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> You can follow Post Status and our guests on Twitter:</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"eplus-wrapper\">\n<li><a href=\"http://twitter.com/coreymaass\">Corey Maass</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> (CEO, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/post_status\">Post Status</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/lemonadecode\">Olivia Bisset</a> (Intern, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/post_status\">Post Status</a>)</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"eplus-wrapper has-background\">The <strong>Post Status Draft</strong> podcast is geared toward WordPress professionals, with interviews, news, and deep analysis. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f4dd.png\" alt=\"📝\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /><br /><br /><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/category/post-status-podcasts/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Browse our archives</a>, and don’t forget to subscribe via <a href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/post-status-draft-wordpress/id976403008\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">iTunes</a>, <a href=\"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS8ySkU5c2M4UA\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Google Podcasts</a>, <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/c/PostStatus\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">YouTube</a>, <a href=\"http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/krogsgard/post-status-draft-wordpress-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Stitcher</a>, <a href=\"https://wordpress-post-status-draft-podcast.simplecast.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Simplecast</a>, or <a href=\"https://feeds.simplecast.com/2JE9sc8P\">RSS</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f3a7.png\" alt=\"🎧\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-transcript\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Session 15 Corey &amp; Cory Launch a WordPress Product Live</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>C&amp;C 15</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> All right. Hold on before we go live. Okay. Um, what&#8217;s on your mind&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:21] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> today to talk about? It looks like you&#8217;re streaming to YouTube, but I&#8217;m not recording.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:33] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> Okay, I&#8217;ll just push record.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Hey everybody. Welcome back to Corey and Corey on launching a product lot has been happening in the background. Mainly Corey&#8217;s been on a manic work streak, but we have a working version of the plugin on post edit and uh, he gave me a walkthrough yesterday setting stuff. Corey, what are we, what&#8217;s on your mind today to talk, talk about?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:01:03] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Uh, I think we are, uh, getting close to the first milestone of actually having a product that you, you specifically could start using. My clients could start using maybe, um, I&#8217;m gonna install it on all of my websites. Um, But I think we can start. I&#8217;ve got a, after the installing it on post status yesterday, which we chose not to do live, which worked out just fine.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but we&#8217;ve got a, a pretty slick little product, um, a short punch list of bugs to fix that I&#8217;m working on, um, over the next couple of days. Um, But I think we could start pivoting to how we&#8217;re gonna present this publicly. Um, you know, start setting up the marketing site. I&#8217;ve got the e-commerce set up. I think it works to actually take money.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We haven&#8217;t tried that yet, but that&#8217;s okay. Um, so yeah, I think it&#8217;s the, the next steps to talk about here now are, you know, what we need. So, I mean, for us, but also talking abstractly about. You know, once you have a product, uh, what do you do? So&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:33] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> yeah, with the product, we&#8217;re in this interesting phase, which is working.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s working. When we put it up on a live site, yesterday, we were both making notes about where the product is. But I, I still go back to, I think this is so valuable. Me putting on the client customer hat and actually using it. And more so than I think any product I&#8217;ve had before is really using it and thinking about it creatively.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>How I want those things to come out, I think is gonna formulate back to products. So, so while it already has like our initial OG image, open graph image for site wide. We did some reviews in the past episode. Um, I did some work and I, I really saw some patterns in the synthesis. Mm-hmm. What, like, it is gonna go do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Well, you, you were like almost simultaneously building it, which is awesome. Um, I gotta tell you from yesterday, um, we got, we got some polish that we, we know we&#8217;ve been working on, um, that you even saw and were like, oh, we need this. Um, I love your openness again about hearing feedback and, Hmm, before using it just shows how good of a data of an entrepreneur you are.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But the, the one I&#8217;m really eager to is getting to the blog posts because for this product, uh, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s more so than just an open graph image. It&#8217;s like a social image to share with the post to make it compelling. I think all that work we did with Crop Express, So it&#8217;s all good. Mm-hmm. Helped, like think through what we&#8217;re doing now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I, I got giddy, you know, that I did some of the work when we did the pattern for the home, home or site default. Uh, I went on with some of the blog posts and I was like, this right&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:34] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> here is the money. Yep. Yeah. I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m with you. I think I, one of the. Pivotal moments for us with crop.express was you said, you know, I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m mental octopus.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m all over the place, you know? Yeah. Over here we do this and then we could do this, but it could do this, and over here it&#8217;ll do this and, and you&#8217;re like, what if we start with the feature image? I was like, that&#8217;s. You know, brilliant dart to the center of the dart board kind of thing. Um, and so with this, I really liked you, you did essentially the same thing where you&#8217;re like, OG image for the site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And it was an easy lift for me to add that. So on activation, the plugin takes you to a little welcome screen, which doesn&#8217;t look pretty yet, but that&#8217;s fine. You upload a logo and you click a button and your site has an OG image. And so we are, I love that you install the plugin and a handful of clicks and we are offering value.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We are taking it already to um, Bringing, bringing your site. You know, we keep de debating about how we actually do this wording, um, but, or, or how we word this. But, you know, within a few clicks, our plugin makes your website more professional. Um, if you&#8217;ve got Yost installed, maybe you&#8217;ve already got an OG image.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you don&#8217;t, we provide one, um, and our plugin will override. The image. So it&#8217;s like whatever you&#8217;ve done in Canva or elsewhere, you know, you can update, you can update regularly, that kind of thing. Um, so yeah, I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m with you. We&#8217;re, we&#8217;ve, we&#8217;ve reached that minimum viable product mentality in that we are immediately offering value, which I think is really cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and then, The next, next thing following that OG image thread is, yeah, for each blog post, for each product, um, figuring, you know, again, initially it&#8217;ll be a, uh, a manual process of like, oh, you&#8217;re, you know, essentially for every blog post you, you are adding going forward, um, Once you&#8217;ve set up the blog post, you then can go set up your OG image.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, so we get there and that, that honestly is about 60%, 70% of the cleanup I need to do anyway. I. We are product complete, we are ready to sell a product. Um, and then, yeah, down the road, uh, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s obviously lots of fun and, and interesting things. One, you know, like I wanna be able to, we&#8217;ve talked about, but I wanna be able to, like for you on post status, you&#8217;ve got, you know, dozens or hundreds of posts that already exist and so they will benefit from the Sitewide OG image.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But wouldn&#8217;t it be nice if you set up a template for a stand, you know, a template that goes with a blog post and click a button and it retroactively goes back and creates OG images for each of those blog posts, stuff like [00:08:00] that. Um, but I kind of think that that&#8217;s one that&#8217;s neat. You know, that&#8217;s icing on the cake.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s a version 1.1 kind of feature. Um, but also I, I do think we want a little bit of validation. Before that happens. Um, and or if we find ourselves twiddling our thumbs and you&#8217;re like, yeah, for post status, I we really need this, then we can call that validation and I can implement it. But, um, but yeah, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s flushing out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Being featured complete as far as OG images is, is the way to start. And obviously right along with that, it&#8217;s easy enough to create, um, a duplicate image that is square so you can throw it on Instagram or whatever. Yep.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um,</p>\n\n\n\n<p>behind the scenes, I think what&#8217;s really cool is. We kept, but after doing the, the first install yesterday on post status, Corey set up a first basic OG image. And then due to caching, we couldn&#8217;t see it. We could verify that it was there by viewing the source. And we knew the image was there, but we couldn&#8217;t see it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And just now during our call, uh, Basically what&#8217;s funny is our Slack, private Slack conversation is just us posting post status.com back and forth, back and forth, trying to see the damn thing work and uh, Corey just posted it and adjusted it did just show up and that is one of the most satisfying things ever.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So yeah, it&#8217;s working.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:48] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> Absolutely. I do think if I just put on the post status as a customer hat, Um, we do a fair amount of content and we want to, we have a significant following on Twitter and in, uh, LinkedIn and I particularly camp out on LinkedIn for a second. It&#8217;s really compelling to me and, and I, a couple years ago, I kind of, okay, I&#8217;ve just accepted invitations over the years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now I&#8217;m gonna see what this is about. I, I really think, especially with Twitter&#8217;s implosion, There&#8217;s a real value back to LinkedIn. Um, even more so than was there. But when I think about post customer for a second, we do a piece of content. We could just do the typical thing, copy, link, paste into Instagram, put a couple of words in it, do that thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, I think there&#8217;s value though, that image of like, I was just thinking like we do these weekly roundups with tech and business and like, or make wordpress.com for instance, or make WordPress, um, having like just the headlines. Mm-hmm. You know, like weekly roundup is the tech roundup and then there&#8217;s three or four bullets of like what goes into that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So they&#8217;d know a preview of like, oh, I&#8217;m interested, I&#8217;m gonna click through, go to the link. That&#8217;s valuable to me because right now I&#8217;m just gonna take a link post in there. Hope the featured image looks decent, cuz it always pulls that. So, like, to me that&#8217;s value for, for post status. Client hat is like, it&#8217;s just right there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, I can take a couple steps while I&#8217;m in the post. When I get it done is when I usually put it over there. And now somebody, somebody might schedule that, that&#8217;s cool. However, I kinda like post share it. Sure. Uh, and having that right there with like, I keep going back to my slide content slides I&#8217;ve done for talks and do different things and you know, some header with wall points and, and I think what I worked on the.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Image templates that you also mentioned was like holding in an actual image to that. Right. That&#8217;s always capture thought to me. But if it&#8217;s there, pulled in, adds a little visual pair pto where it&#8217;s just not like a slide.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:20] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Yeah. We&#8217;re gonna, it&#8217;s, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s all these, from a text standpoint, there&#8217;s these, these loops that, or these circles we&#8217;re gonna want to close.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, Because it&#8217;s the, and, and we&#8217;re gonna have to think through the, the workflow, the UI for this, um, which, and it might be as simple as a button, but there might be some setup beforehand. So, we&#8217;ll, we&#8217;ll have to walk through this, but it&#8217;s like, that&#8217;s why I tried to wa I tried to talk this all out. I, I don&#8217;t know, two or three calls ago where I was like, okay, the first step.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And just a minute ago, in fact, the first step is the OG image. For the site. The second step is the OG image per post, which you&#8217;re gonna have to set up manually. Fine. Like we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re building a product. The, uh, one of the, the circles that I want to close for you and for, for the product pretty quickly is you, you&#8217;ve created a blog post or, again, I, I want to keep harping on product too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Neither of us are in e-commerce. Particularly, but I, I think this is gonna be a lot of value. Um, but whatever it is, a post of some kind, you up upload a featured image. That featured image gets used in an OMG I M G, an OMG image. We&#8217;ll call &#8217;em that. And then a, and then there&#8217;s an option to replace the featured image, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it&#8217;s like you&#8217;ve uploaded a temporary featured image that then gets incorporated into a template. And generated as an an OMG image that then replaces the featured image so that the, essentially the headline on the blog post, wherever, however the featured image was used, which like you said, a lot of the time when you share.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The featured image comes up and I, I, there&#8217;s going to be instances where an OG image is almost moot because the featured image works has two purposes. One is as a featured image, like if you&#8217;re looking at a blog post, and the second is if somebody shares it. You know, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn will automatically pull in the first image, usually the featured image, which will be, which will act as the OG image.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, so it&#8217;s one asset, multiple purposes. Um, but in both instances, I think that there&#8217;s, you know, when we were first really exploring this, we went and looked at, um, WP Beginner, I think we looked at, um, Prius&#8217;s blog and, and we saw that a bunch of them, or the two, I think the two of those, and a and a bunch of other sites, the featured image, it was almost redundant, but the featured image itself was s shareable because it had the blog post title and stuff in it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and I liked what you said a minute ago of like, often, right now you upload a featured image of. You know, business person at laptop looking businessy, you know, it&#8217;s, you know, and it might be a photo of, of somebody. But, but then you go and you share it and you hope that it&#8217;s relevant and you hope that the people will see a title that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s, you know, links the image to the content.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Whereas we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re talking about is, um, Yeah, is inserting, inserting the title right into the image. So again, it might end up being a little, it might feel redundant, or as you&#8217;re doing the workflow, it feels redundant, but you&#8217;re, you&#8217;re guaranteeing that every image has more value. Um, and then, yeah, here you&#8217;re illustrating the second.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Loop that we wanna close, which again, feels kind of meta, but it&#8217;s the like, create a blog post, take a picture of the blog post, pull that that picture in, um, to an, an OMG image, and then use that to share, or even as the featured image. So you&#8217;re gonna end up with, and in theory if you do this, uh, A couple if you, if you create a template using the featured image or create an OMG image using the featured image, and then take a picture of it, you could end up with, you know, a picture of a picture of a picture of a picture all the way down, which is kind of fun.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anyway. Um, But I think that that&#8217;s, you know, we&#8217;re talking about value and, and a, one of the ways that we achieve value is information. So, headlines, excerpts, bullet points. The other way we, a, we add value is something com is, is by creating a compelling image. And I think at least right now, with the way or a current trend, That achieves, this is exactly what you&#8217;re showing, which is, um, an image of content, but in the context of a device.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on a screen or, um, yeah, on a cell phone, on a desktop, that kind of thing. Yeah.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:37] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> Was, uh, just looking at this for a second, thinking about when you&#8217;re saying the featured image, Is how, like I don&#8217;t mm-hmm. Feel like super, uh, energized by what I did here on these two. And I was like, okay, well, you know, when you go, like there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s two parts.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s the social value, we&#8217;ve already talked about that, but there&#8217;s the search value. Mm-hmm. The image is a piece of content that summarizes mm-hmm. Inspire someone to click through, but like almost go, like that&#8217;s thinking of it as a piece of content that is an image piece of content, but it has valuable stuff on here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and like it&#8217;s really that slide format is, you know, everybody takes a picture of really good presentations when they&#8217;ve got slides. Cause they&#8217;re like, this is cool. I don&#8217;t know what this is called in Google, Emmett Google search, Google Images, but, Makes me think when we get to this part, we need to have a caption.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. Um, that when the image is out there, there&#8217;s a caption. It seems like, I don&#8217;t know what this is called within Google, the image side of things, but like, it&#8217;s an opportunity I haven&#8217;t seen really explored that I would mm-hmm. That I would like. You&#8217;re, you&#8217;re searching and those, that image side comes up too, um, where there&#8217;s.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Interesting content summarized for you, like right there, right. Um, that&#8217;s really valuable. So I was trying to think like, okay, how would you really want that to look like if you don&#8217;t have a featured image, which is my problem easily. Um, you know, would we put, even if there&#8217;s, I I was just thinking about&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:33] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> that for a minute.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Well, I like the idea too of, um, And I hadn&#8217;t thought of this before, uh, essentially a default featured image like we are using a logo. So let&#8217;s, like for post status, you&#8217;ve got, you&#8217;ve got the little PS infinity symbol everywhere. Um, but also the ev I think a lot of people associate like the homepage of post status has that image of people at.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>One of the, the, you know, the post status conference years ago, um, that hasn&#8217;t changed in 10 years, excuse me. Um, but, uh, you know, but that&#8217;s, it&#8217;s now, it&#8217;s now it&#8217;s a bit of your branding, right? Like that&#8217;s now a photo that, that people might actually associate with post status. So if that was, um, if that was the standard featured I, the default featured image that got pulled in everywhere, you know, even if, like one of the things that we&#8217;ve talked about is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Image, uh, is, is tr image treatments. So it&#8217;s like as a ba if the background was two women chatting with that was, you know, converted to black and white and had, and had an orange filter over the top. And so it was just, again, these are, these are all of the things that humans find compelling, even if it&#8217;s not obvious or.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Upfront or obtuse. Um, you know, having, having two eyes and a s and a smile is known to be compelling to humans at a subconscious level. So it&#8217;s stuff like that that, um, these little simple effects that we can start to explore down the road, or, I mean soon, sooner than later, but it&#8217;s like, as we&#8217;re going along, as we&#8217;re learning about this stuff, we can go, oh, right, let&#8217;s just add a default option for, you know, these background treatments.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, just looking at seeing.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:35] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> Mm-hmm. Some publications like, obviously these&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:38] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> are,</p>\n\n\n\n<p>it&#8217;s interesting. Yeah. I mean these are, you know, most of these featured image as a background. Yeah. Title pulled in and selected. Put this at the top of the bottom, and some of them have an excerpt below the title. That&#8217;s the whole thing. You know, and so it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s up to the authors or you know, publishers since this is New York Times to find compelling images.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. I mean, and so un you know, we&#8217;ve talked about that at various points. That&#8217;s not a problem we&#8217;re choosing to solve right now. Um, so as the publisher of a given blog, you still have to go find that compelling image. But once you do, we give you all these options to do something with it. And what I really like is we&#8217;re defining a, a process.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it&#8217;s once you, yeah, that&#8217;s the picture. Um, once you essentially define your style, So it&#8217;s like I, I, I&#8217;ve talked about, I&#8217;m a musician as a hobby, and I actually have a, a new track coming out tomorrow. And so I&#8217;ve put that on my band camp and, um, you know, for every track that I finish, every re you know, release that I do, I now go into Canva.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I hit copy or duplicate from the last. Release image that I created. Yeah. And I changed the title, the text, and I changed the image. But that way the font is always the same. The font size is always the same. The colors, font, colors are always the same. So that&#8217;s what we&#8217;re talking about here is like you creating exactly what you&#8217;re doing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Say this, you created this and saved this for a first blog post. The idea would be then to say, save this as the default. Blog post featured image template. So then you go into, you, you say word in WordPress, you say add new, you write a new blog post. When you jump in to OMG I M G, this is gonna come up first.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Do you want it, you know, right away create your, you know, A an OMG image from your saved default blog post OMG image template, and you say, yes. And it sucks in the headline, it sucks in the featured image and you might go in and tweak it a little bit. You know, like if the headline&#8217;s really long or it&#8217;s more fun to have like, just like you showed on that New York Times Instagram a second ago.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Depending on the image, you might want the title at the top or the bottom, but most of the work is done with you done for you. You tweak a couple of things, you know, move a couple of sliders and then you&#8217;re good. Um, I&#8217;m excited about that. I think that that&#8217;s gonna be neat. I think that it&#8217;s going to be, it&#8217;s one of those things that</p>\n\n\n\n<p>one of the challenges is going to be for, because it, because they are associated with publishing. It&#8217;s. It&#8217;s a, it&#8217;s a hurry up and wait kind of product. That&#8217;s one of the only things, red flags that I have. So it&#8217;s like, if there&#8217;s a button for creating these images for all existing posts, that&#8217;s huge value.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right? But this is also one of those, like you install it. And then you have to go write a blog post. And that&#8217;s why I&#8217;m really glad that we&#8217;re creating a sitewide OG image. We can create sitewide social images, you know? But if you don&#8217;t have, if you&#8217;re not gonna write a blog post until tomorrow, you don&#8217;t have a reason to use the plugin until tomorrow.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now we talked&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:32] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> about assigning. Mm-hmm. You could go back to a previous post. Mm-hmm. So I wonder if there&#8217;s a thought where we put a preview of a post, you know, To get &#8217;em started or&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:43] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> something. Mm, that&#8217;s awesome. So what I took,&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:47] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> one of the big things I took for that is the fact that people do are in the rhythm of doing a featured image.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think I defaulted to these templates because I don&#8217;t. Mm-hmm. That&#8217;s my mindset. So I just was trying to play for a second. I go, I think these things still apply, you know? Oh, for sure. Image on left. Image on right image as background with opa. I was trying to find an opacity here, but, um, yeah, and then you want headline, like pin on the photo.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Do you want it up here?&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:18] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Right. You don&#8217;t want it, you wouldn&#8217;t want it to cover a person&#8217;s face, so you&#8217;d move it to the bottom left. But if the image has people on the bottom, then you want it at the top or whatever. So, yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, I&#8217;ve, you know, as I&#8217;ve been developing, so I, I did a, for anybody listening to this who didn&#8217;t watch the last one, go watch the last one. Um, because we did a, a little walkthrough, um, and, and showed my initial approach to the product specifically, we are not, Canva, we are not drag and drop like I and I at various points.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like the developer in me wants to take this to the obvious extreme. Um, and, and that in many respects is Canva, which is drag and drop and, and infinite options. And. And I think, I mean, part of that, it it part of, I don&#8217;t want to go down that path because it&#8217;s just a hell of a lot of work and I want to just get this damn thing out the door.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I also do think objectively that I, at least for now, prefer this approach because of what we&#8217;re talking about. Like if you want to go, if you wanna be in Photoshop, be in Photoshop. If you don&#8217;t, if you&#8217;re, if that&#8217;s a bit too much. Go jump into Canva, get creative, go wild. But this is, to me is meant to be quick and dirty as underselling it, but you know, quick and useful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s just another step in your workflow. And that was, which is kind of the conclusion we came to out of Crop Express was like, you&#8217;ve got this workflow, here&#8217;s a pain point in your process, but it shouldn&#8217;t be the entire process. Yeah.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:14] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> Well, just like playing with this, I go, okay, I get it. You know, put it in the background.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;ve got left and we&#8217;ll have a right version of all this stuff. Yeah. But there&#8217;s an option of like set featured image as background. Then they can play with the color options you&#8217;ve given them. And I mean, I call that pretty good. Yeah. If, if you&#8217;re in the, if you just want headline and photo. This is an option if you want, I think, which is gonna be even BA could be even better, is like there&#8217;s a piece of content, like&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:53] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> mm-hmm.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. Again, I think that that&#8217;s like, that&#8217;s version 1.2, right? Where we, you know, one of the things that got us really jazzed talking about this early on was you brought up slides. Um, we&#8217;ve talked a few times about, um, drop, uh, poll quotes, drop quotes, block quotes, whatever you call &#8217;em. And so, you know, I&#8217;m excited about, again, version 1.2 or whatever, where.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We actually have a little wizard that says like, here are the quotes from the page. Ah, and this is where we bring in ai and that&#8217;s why we, we make 2 million. Um, but, you know, throw this content at, at our integration with ai and it come and it comes back with three different bullet point summaries of the content.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then we, as we automatically just drop that content in. There you go. We figured out the AI integration. I knew it was just a matter of time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:10] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> I&#8217;m using in a service called podway. Test it out. Yep. Um,</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I can see how something like this&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:24] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> would look. Yep. Exactly. And this is where, again, like once, once a, once a template is defined, cuz these are all placeholders, right? So you&#8217;ve got a placeholder for the photo, the, the, the image of. The content, you&#8217;ve got a placeholder for the title, and then you&#8217;ve got a placeholder for a three bullet point summary.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now either you can write that summary or again, we could have something write it for you, or you could have something write it for you. Um, but I love the idea. So one of the things that, so I&#8217;ve been playing with chat g p t, like everybody else for one of my products. I went into chatGPT, and I said, Write 20, um, 20 tweets.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. Broadly speaking, you know, for the topic of my product. And then I said, write 20 tweets that target creatives. Specific to my product and then business people, you know? And so it was very similar content, but slightly different. And so in the end, instead of 20 tweets over and over again, I wound up with 60 tweets.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so I scheduled them one a day. Right. And so I&#8217;m picturing something very similar here where it&#8217;s like, you know, If you, if you had your featured image for the, for the, you know, the, the one you&#8217;re doing in right in front of us, you&#8217;ve got three bullet points. You&#8217;ve got a title, you&#8217;ve got a featured image.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right. But like this is just one and. In, in our world now, you can&#8217;t, you&#8217;re never going to, or you shouldn&#8217;t, uh, just tweet about something once. You don&#8217;t write a blog post, tweet about it, and then forget about it. You need a long tail of content to be able to share, right? And so ideally, Not only would you say generate, like, say if this, what&#8217;s in front of us right now is, is your, you know, saved template.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Not only would you say generate this, but you would say, generate five variations of this. And you, I, this is again where I think I AI is a perfect candidate. You&#8217;d say, you know, Hey, chatGpT, here&#8217;s my article. Summarize it. With three bullet points in five different ways, and then we suck all that in. And then picture a page that just has this template with the different content.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, so there&#8217;s six versions right down, and you, and you go, which ones do you wanted to use? Bang, bang, bang. Save them all, you know, and then schedule them all. And that way, and you&#8217;ve got one that goes out each day or you do two days, four days, eight days. 16 days. So again, you get this long tail of content that isn&#8217;t identical but is all relevant.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s gonna be huge.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. Assuming that people are actually promoting their content the way they&#8217;re supposed to. Right.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:33:33] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> Which is, is is part of the challenge.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:33:37] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Yeah. Yeah. I think that I, you know, your emphasis we&#8217;re on call 15, right? So your emphasis throughout all of our conversations on agencies and on professionals, teams, et cetera, while it&#8217;s not, I&#8217;m very much like the solopreneur in entrepreneur.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Whatever other funny way you wanna say the preneur word. Um, but I think small, I build small products for myself and so other people in my shoes. And it&#8217;s not at all that I won&#8217;t use this, but again, I, you know, I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m working with clients that have dedicated social media managers. They&#8217;re the target agencies that are doing full-blown marketing campaigns.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They&#8217;re the, they&#8217;re the target because again, it&#8217;s these, this long tail of content that that&#8217;s going to require variation, that are going to benefit the most from this. Yeah.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:49] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> Yeah. I&#8217;ve been thinking really much in that regard as like, okay, what would I want? How do I, it&#8217;s like, This slide for that post, you know, something like this, like a treatment over here doesn&#8217;t take up too much space for the the brand, but at least brands it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep. This is a post status thing, and then this is really informative content like mm-hmm. It&#8217;s really that summary. Too long, didn&#8217;t read. Yeah. Take this for any post. It&#8217;s like you said, you can throw that into Chatgpt and get a bunch of these things, but like, yeah. I don&#8217;t know if I worked on something like that, but I go, this case study warrants a lot like headline.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This is a roundup we do about what&#8217;s happening in WordPress core based. Basically, she has these every, every week. These are the things you would just pull from it. Three things you need to know. Have chat. ChatGPT, help you with that if you want, and then to put it here and then you go, okay. What I would normally do is say, save this as an image, and I&#8217;d go over to what if I should do that real quick.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Uh, there we go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Stay right there. I need to work on the image, image size, of course, but then you&#8217;re just putting in alt text. I dunno why the logo didn&#8217;t show up. Oh, it&#8217;s right there. So you know, if you think about it, right there. You&#8217;re okay. You&#8217;re, you&#8217;re a member of Post, so select the idea is you can look at this and see it a glance, some of the things going mm-hmm.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then decide to click on. That&#8217;s value for the social right there. We&#8217;ve already mm-hmm. We&#8217;ve already talked about that, I think, but I think philosophically, I&#8217;m shaping this a little bit up and my mind is, it&#8217;s the too long, didn&#8217;t read now. Mm-hmm. You get this and whatever this. Uh, Google image. Like what would be example where if I, here, lemme see how to change a light pole, light switch.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Something. You, you know what I&#8217;m saying? Like this, people also ask, there&#8217;s some, uh, search criteria. They come like this, you know, the video content that shows up. There&#8217;s sometimes, I guess it&#8217;s more pinteresty type stuff like,</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like of a better word, video show up. But isn&#8217;t there a section where images show up sometimes?&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:08] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Yeah. Search for a product, search for, um, say like that. So, um, there you go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it&#8217;s like in shopping is what I found. Okay. This one. So now hold on, hold on. Um, click and start dragging one of those images like this. Yeah. Did it? Yeah. I just discovered this this morning. So you can drag an image into Google Lens to do, uh, to find out more meta information about. That image and whatnot.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Oh, really? Which I think is, so right now it&#8217;s sort of a hidden feature, but I think that that&#8217;s coming down the road too. But it&#8217;s like, you know, Google, pretty much any, any of these services now can do image parsing, or excuse me, text parsing from images. So they&#8217;re also going to be reading these images, which is really, really cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Regardless of what alt text you might provide. Do you know what this&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:20] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> is called in Google? Is this&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:21] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> og? Uh, I would assume so.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:34] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> Img, but it&#8217;s 92 by 92.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anyway, I, I felt like there was, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s more of the Pinterest thought. You know, it&#8217;s like you go, oh, office.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So when we think about the blog post stuff, This is pulling something here. It&#8217;s gotta be OG based, right? That&#8217;s what I&#8217;m trying to find. Say look at that six is, and then give it a little icon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:40:43] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Be honest. There&#8217;s no direct way to make your images show up, but somebody has to have figured this out.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:40:48] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> Yeah. Because if we can get the specs we haven&#8217;t, we give the client a per a potential to let that show up. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because man, that&#8217;s compelling. I don&#8217;t know. Like this is Zoom ideas. So look at all these images in this display. There we go. See this. Well, I don&#8217;t know how they&#8217;re getting all that. This, this search comes up sometimes. See this? Mm-hmm. That&#8217;s what we&#8217;re unlocking. Whatever this is, we&#8217;ll figure it out and say This is what you want.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This is what it&#8217;s called. And um, OMG mg does it? Yep. Do the possibility to do it, because I think this is where you start going into, I wish I had an idea for this, but I mean, the PINTERESTY type content. Mm-hmm. Recipes.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:52] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Oh, there you go.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>All of these are really interesting, um, personality tests too, to see what you come up with on the spot. No, I&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:42:08] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> was like, they&#8217;re gonna know I&#8217;ve been liking an celery recipes,&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:42:14] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> but see they as one does.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, so there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s an I that that image is right there. How do we,</p>\n\n\n\n<p>and it looks like&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:42:29] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> it&#8217;s 92 by 92 or that ratio, whatever, that Nope, that&#8217;s not.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:42:34] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> That&#8217;s not it. It&#8217;s a slightly rectangle, but it&#8217;s not. And so what&#8217;s, what would be interesting is, um, view the view the actual source rather than inspecting. So just right click anywhere and say view, source</p>\n\n\n\n<p>and search for OG colon image.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Keep typing image. It&#8217;ll pop up. Oh, sorry.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:43:00] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> Hey, so this is interesting. Is this the action type&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:43:04] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> content so that, that you&#8217;d populate by like description you&#8217;d do in Yost and we certainly could do more. Um, like if you don&#8217;t want to have Yost installed since we&#8217;re already adding header, we could add more headers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But again, not I, I don&#8217;t want to chase that if we can help it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Same. Go to this. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You missed a two on the end, so it re cropped it. Oh, interesting.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:43:52] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> So it&#8217;s live&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:43:52] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> cropping, that&#8217;s all it&#8217;s doing is Google. So the ogn, yeah. So it&#8217;s right. So, um, but it&#8217;s, but where is it? Why, why does it take the square? Because it doesn&#8217;t necessarily know, I mean, not all these websites are gonna have that auto cropping, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, so somewhere too, it&#8217;s saying there&#8217;s a square image. Let&#8217;s, let&#8217;s throw that into the search results. Look at this. They&#8217;re, they&#8217;re pulling the Twitter card too. Mm-hmm. It&#8217;s&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:44:24] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> already baked in, I think. Yep. Interesting. I I just go, man. Um,</p>\n\n\n\n<p>you know, some of this, like, these are appealing photos for sure, but I go, if you can put some piece of content right here, That&#8217;s helpful. Yep.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:44:52] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Yeah, I mean, and that&#8217;s the presumption, is that, so actually before you jump, um, go click on the one you just talked about or ultimate click on Ultimate, you know, any of these with that, that has a title, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So go to that website. Oh, it&#8217;s you. That might be YouTube. That&#8217;s not gonna help us.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So they&#8217;ve got these big pictures, but I, what I&#8217;m trying to determine is if they have, like they&#8217;ve explicitly set an OG image that has this extra value in it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, so they&#8217;ve got two two, oops. Oh, that&#8217;s fine. I&#8217;m sure the first one just gets sucked in</p>\n\n\n\n<p>the article.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, I, so we&#8217;ll do a little research. We&#8217;ll find one of these, find a good example of this, and then see if we can&#8217;t decipher, you know, and or, um, do some more Googling to find out a, you know, when and what is what, when, and why does Google pull in an image in their actual search results? And, and not others.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, is it, is it just an OG image and they&#8217;re cropping? It, is it, is there some other tag we don&#8217;t know about,</p>\n\n\n\n<p>but I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m anxious to get. This like when the first couple of templates done and out the door and in front of people, because I think it&#8217;s, you know, kind of like how your brain has said, oh, but what about this? And then, oh, I found this other thing over here. Like, it&#8217;s also, you know, but we started with, here&#8217;s what post status is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Branding already looks like we want recreate that as a starting point. Um, other people are gonna come to us. Vva from FIUs and Sayed from WP Beginner and whoever are gonna be like, okay, but you know, we need a way to accommodate our, our branding or the way the treatments we&#8217;ve already decided on in Canva if we&#8217;re gonna, you know, because we want our images to be pretty consistent, you know, across all socials forever.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, how do we create recreate hours? And it&#8217;s like, oh, okay, so we need the option to do background treatments or turn the whole thing 90 degrees, whatever. It&#8217;s, you know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep. But that means that one Corey needs to finish the thing once and for all, and then two. Yeah, we wanna start getting the, the marketing asset aspects, assets out there, um, shopping cart finalized and stuff like that. Cuz it&#8217;s like, even if we get some beta testers, um, and we give them licenses or let them sign up for free or discount or something, you know, first year free, whatever it is, like we wanna get that sorted out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:48:30] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> Started with that yesterday and we didn&#8217;t need it. Didn&#8217;t get it finished. So I&#8217;ve got my screen up here where I started it, the logo, and then the website is part two. Uh, going back&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:48:43] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> to pause, squeeze, I started, um, flushing out just putting rectangles on a page for the homepage of O M G I M g.co. So it&#8217;s quite literally just boxes of color, but ready to have, [00:49:00] um, content float into it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay. All right. I&#8217;m gonna try to&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:49:08] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> carve off some time. Gotta get the logo going in process and then, uh, the website stuff. So&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:49:16] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> I think, yeah, it&#8217;s like I&#8217;m, I think standard, standard formula, you know, compelling tagline, value prop, a buy now button, you know, three icons with. With compelling value, props good enough.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I mean, that&#8217;s all we need to start, so,</p>\n\n\n\n<p>okay. Yeah. If&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:49:45] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> I have an hour, um, I can get that cranked, cranked enough to start flushing out our page.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:49:57] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Simpler is better. So, you know, feel free to delete or [00:50:00] hide rows. Like yeah, but just enough that we, it looks like something, um, like&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:50:08] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> here a box headline, what it does for you, how benefits you, three things show up in social.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. And then features are like the nuts and bolts things and Yeah. Pricing. Yep. Yep.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:50:31] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> And yeah, and I&#8217;ve been waiting to do, like, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s, at this point I&#8217;ve used e d D enough that I&#8217;ve got standard styles that I copy from site to site and ways to set up, like being able to sign in and manage your subscription kind of thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, obviously they make it very easy, but I have a way that I like to lay things out. Um, but I&#8217;ve been waiting to do that. We, we need a logo, which helps us define a style and colors. To then carry that throughout the rest of the site. So our branding is somewhat consistent. So I&#8217;ve, I&#8217;ve been holding off on that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, you know, but all that takes an afternoon once we&#8217;ve got, yeah. The general look and feel</p>\n\n\n\n<p>back in our&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:51:16] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> conversation to, uh, put into there, do we want to go, I know we talked about this in Slack. Do we want to go with a. The eighties funky thought.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:51:32] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> I, I mean, because of the OMG part, like I definitely think we want something fun. Um, but I don&#8217;t have any religion around how the rest of it, since I&#8217;m not creating the logo, like I&#8217;d rather.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anybody grabs, whatever, whatever comes to their mind, like, that&#8217;s why we pay them. It&#8217;s like when I get on Fiver, I hire five people to do logos because I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m honestly paying them, not so much to create a logo, but to apply their own thinking to, you know, here&#8217;s a, here&#8217;s the color palette that, that jumps out at me when you tell me what the, the product does kind of thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So</p>\n\n\n\n<p>idea is,</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:52:23] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> It&#8217;s kind of almost like a Mac app. You know, you&#8217;re, it&#8217;s the thing that&#8217;s solid that helps you look, look good and do things faster. Yep. Um, with images, Paula Showcase, I&#8217;m looking at some of these icons in my tray&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:52:44] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, I started walking through, um, uh, product hunt, uh, um, featured, uh, uh, what was it? Make logo.ai. And I started plugging things in to kind of, and they, they want to charge you for the actual logos, but it was kind of neat that they came up, they present you with a bunch of concepts and so it was like, um, A magic wand over an image.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it&#8217;s like image generation or, um, cuz I, in the description I put in sharing and I put in, um, open graph image, you know, image generation. And so it was like, you know, do you want. Uh, a canvas or the, you know, the, the thing that the artist uses to put the paint on, um, the palette. I was like, eh, you know, do you want a magic wand to poof, an image appears?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Eh, that&#8217;s getting closer cuz I want it to be that easy. You know? Do you want an icon of, they had one that was like, um, you know, a picture like a. A fake painting that had people all around it, like, you&#8217;re sharing that? I was like, no, definitely not. That&#8217;s terrible. You know, so it&#8217;s like these concepts of, um, of what we want, want it to represent.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>To me it&#8217;s image generation, because that&#8217;s part of, that&#8217;s the, if you&#8217;ve got a workflow in the middle, you know, you&#8217;ve gotta write words, but you&#8217;ve also gotta generate images. And to me, that&#8217;s the problem we&#8217;re solving. But that&#8217;s also, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s feature not benefit. Yeah. I,&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:54:36] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> I&#8217;m looking to pro probably kind to get some thoughts here to put into the designer.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay. I think I&#8217;ve got enough here. I&#8217;ll riff on. Cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay.[00:55:00]&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>All right,&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:55:00] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> man. I, I just need a logo that looks really good because I&#8217;m gonna have a t-shirt made for Word camp us.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:55:06] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> Yeah. Oh, that, that&#8217;s even better. Um,</p>\n\n\n\n<p>it&#8217;s almost like, huh? Okay. How would we want that to lick on the shirt?&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:55:19] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> That actually helps me frame it to me, to me again, because of. Because of the OMG in the name, and we talked about going all, all caps, it&#8217;s like not a rainbow, but gradient of bright colors, you know, big fun font. Like I don&#8217;t want it to be goofy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I don&#8217;t want it to be clown like, um, and that&#8217;s why I guess I&#8217;m shying away too from. Um, actually your, your MAC icons concept is, is a good idea of like, over to me. A lot of them are overwrought, three-dimensional, big drop shadow kind of thing, and it&#8217;s like, eh, I want, I want something, you know, more fun than that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like if you, if you were gonna have a magic wand, like you&#8217;d want a bend in it, you&#8217;d want it to be almost cartoon-like or something. But then it&#8217;s, but then it&#8217;s not professional enough, so I don&#8217;t know. I don&#8217;t know. Uh,</p>\n\n\n\n<p>it has to, it has to look good on your baseball cap there and it&#8217;s gotta go look good on my chest here. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The swag is more important than anything, let&#8217;s be honest. It is&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:56:45] <strong>Cory Miler:</strong> a good frame for me though, is like, how would that pop and how would we want that to look?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:56:54] <strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>All right. Let&#8217;s be done today. Um, I should have an update for you soon this week. Um, addressing all the, um, the bugs and extra bells and whistles that we talked about. Um, And in particular, I want to, like we said, I want to cut everything over to we&#8217;ve, we&#8217;ve got the sitewide handled, we need the post per post handled, like you said today.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and then plug in a logo, plug in a little, uh, style once we&#8217;ve got a style defined and then the plug-ins, I think ready to share. So that&#8217;ll be cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay. Cool, man. Keep me posted. All right. Well thank.</p>\n<p>This article was published at Post Status — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 01 Jun 2023 23:17:16 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Cory Miller\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:26;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:77:\"Do The Woo Community: Builder Tips from WordCamp Europe 2023 Speakers, Part 2\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=75230\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:59:\"https://dothewoo.io/wordcamp-europe-and-speak-session-tips/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:399:\"<p>The second in our series where we hear more about the sessions and tips from WordCamp Europe 2023 speakers. </p>\n<p>&gt;&gt; The post <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io/wordcamp-europe-and-speak-session-tips/\">Builder Tips from WordCamp Europe 2023 Speakers, Part 2</a> appeared first on <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io\">Do the Woo - a WooCommerce Builder Community</a>	.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 01 Jun 2023 07:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:27;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56:\"WordPress.org blog: People of WordPress: Stefano Cassone\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=15030\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:71:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/05/people-of-wordpress-stefano-cassone/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13126:\"<p><strong>With <a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2023/\">WordCamp Europe 2023</a> in June, we feature Stefano Cassone, a web designer, photographer and volunteer translator, who believes his life has been transformed through WordPress and its community.</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>The&nbsp;<em>People of WordPress</em>&nbsp;series shares inspiring stories of how people’s lives can change for the better through WordPress and its global community of contributors.</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"535\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2023/05/stefano-featured-img.jpg?resize=1024%2C535&ssl=1\" alt=\"Stefano with a laptop covered in WordPress event stickers\" class=\"wp-image-15027\" />Stefano with a laptop covered in WordPress event stickers\n\n\n\n<p>Stefano has always been fascinated by the internet. His initial learning in the 1990s was through joining friends at a local pub where they could explore how websites were structured and learn to use chat software.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This led to Stefano creating websites for fun in 1998, and his first paid job was for the shop where he bought comics. He turned to content management systems (CMS) to speed up the creation process for sites, but found he needed more documentation to really understand their capabilities. Then he read a magazine article about WordPress, a CMS which was being used to make incredible blog sites, and was supported by an international community and documentation. Over time, Stefano started using that documentation to work on websites in Italian.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">WordPress provides a life-changing turning point&nbsp;</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Stefano describes himself as an introvert. He found that WordPress helped him to work from home, to develop his skills and the quality of what he could produce, as well as build his self-confidence.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A catalyst for the turning point in his life and career was the discovery of an area for events on the WordPress dashboard. On this page, he found a forthcoming local meetup in Rome.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In November 2017, Stefano took the step to go along to this event, led by a curiosity of what he might discover and intrigued by how a software could be supported by a vast community. The topic at the event was on <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/cli/\">WP-CLI</a>, a command line interface for WordPress. He recalled that he felt outside his comfort zone as he did not regard himself as a developer and at that point, had only used the software for simple jobs. He wondered whether using the software as his only CMS was going to be a long term option and if these meetups were suitable for him.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>At the meetup, people were talking about a forthcoming event, called WordCamp Rome. Through his research, he saw that there was a lot of enthusiasm for this event. This intrigued him and he wondered if it would show him that he could have a career using the software after all.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Unfamiliar with WordCamps, Stefano found it difficult at first to know what he could go to and how to get involved, but he persevered and attended the event.</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p>&#8220;The WordCamp was a great discovery: talks at all levels from basic to those for developers, advanced and very advanced. I was immediately struck by the enthusiasm of the volunteers. It was an environment where I felt very comfortable, so much so, that I asked myself how I could participate in some WordCamps.&#8221;</p>\n<cite>Stefano Cassone</cite></blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>From this event, Stefano was encouraged by those he met to consider applying as a volunteer for a future WordCamp.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There was also much talk at the event about ‘Slack’. It was new to Stefano, but with help from those attending, he signed up for the messaging tool Slack, used by the WordPress community. He was still unsure how he could contribute, and if he would be welcome.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Joining thousands of volunteer translators of WordPress</h3>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"800\" height=\"600\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2023/05/stefano-wc-italia-2022.jpg?resize=800%2C600&ssl=1\" alt=\"Italian General Translation Editors at WordPress Italia 2022\" class=\"wp-image-15028\" />Italian General Translation Editors at WordPress Italia 2022\n\n\n\n<p>Stefano took the plunge and was excited to find there was a team called Polyglots. In this team, people from across the world<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/\"> translate the WordPress software into many different languages</a>. He started with translating a theme he was using in his work. Little by little he became more interested in plugins and attended meetings with other translators. He offered his skills to translate into Italian themes and plugins in general and as his experience grew, he took on the volunteer role of a General Translation Editor. He also took care of the translation into Italian of the WordPress Core. More recently he has joined the group of translators for the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/docs/handbook/helphub/\">HelpHub</a>, which is part of the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/docs/\">WordPress documentation</a> system.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He said: “Participating in the WordPress Slack has helped me enormously: I’ve met a lot of people who I now call friends. Moreover, by translating, I learned a lot about how themes and plugins work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>“It&#8217;s a great way to contribute to WordPress, especially for someone like me who is not a developer. Translating also allows me to fully understand how WordPress works.&#8221; </p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p>&#8220;I always say that translating themes, plugins, and the Core software is the best way to learn WordPress, better than any course or book.”</p>\n<cite>Stefano Cassone</cite></blockquote>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Sharing skills to support Open Source WordPress</h3>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"667\" height=\"500\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2023/05/stefano-at-WC-2019.jpg?resize=667%2C500&ssl=1\" alt=\"Stefano volunteering as a photographer at a WordCamp in 2019 with other contributors.\" class=\"wp-image-15026\" />Stefano volunteering as a photographer at a WordCamp in 2019 with other contributors.\n\n\n\n<p>Stefano’s growing commitment to the open source WordPress project was further boosted through his volunteering. He was a volunteer at WordCamp Rome 2018 and participated there in his first Contributor Day where he had the opportunity to translate the software with others.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He was also able to bring his own hobbies and skills to help the project grow and reach others. One example was his passion for photography, and he volunteered as a photographer for many other events in Italy organized by the WordPress community. He said: “This commitment to the community also allows me to have fun: being a photographer means having the opportunity to walk around the halls and capture moments of the life of a WordCamp.” The more WordCamps he attended, the more he wanted to be part of and keep contributing to the wider WordPress community.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contribution to WordPress is inspiring</h2>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2023/05/stefano-at-the-support-table-contributor-day.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"Stefano at the Support Table at a WordPress Contributor Day\" class=\"wp-image-15025\" />Stefano at the Support Table at a WordPress Contributor Day\n\n\n\n<p>When Stefano was asked to become an organizer for the WordPress meetup in Rome in October 2019, he knew he wanted to be part of reaching and supporting more people in his area. He faced challenges with finding venues, but a greater issue was to come: the Covid-19 pandemic.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Spurred on by the <a href=\"https://it.wordpress.org/\">Italian WordPress community</a> as a whole, he was determined that the meetup was still needed. The regular event was transformed into an online meeting. He was able to gain help from people he had met as a volunteer to share their expertise with meetup attendees.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The community in Italy also worked together to put on WordCamp Italia online. It brought together the organizers of previous meetups and WordCamps, and new contributors too. Stefano volunteered in both online editions of this camp, including being part of the social and communication team. He found it to not only be a fun experience but also one that helped him grow professionally and learn from so many others.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He went onto help restart the <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/romawordpress/\">Rome WordPress meetup</a> in-person meetings in May 2022, was an organizer for the third WordCamp Italy, and has been volunteering for camps in 2023.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What will WordPress bring you?</h3>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"533\" height=\"800\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2023/05/stefano-at-a-wc.jpg?resize=533%2C800&ssl=1\" alt=\"Stefano inspired by his journey at WordCamps asks what will WordPress bring you?\" class=\"wp-image-15024\" />Stefano inspired by his journey at WordCamps asks what will WordPress bring you?\n\n\n\n<p>“Persona and professional growth and friendship” are some of the things they have brought Stefano. Contributing boosted his confidence and willingness to try new opportunities in his work.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He said: “The best thing I got out of joining the WordPress community was the chance to collaborate with some people on a working basis and, I have to say, that was incredible. Being with many of them you have an incredible opportunity to grow in knowledge, you just have to be ready to learn. With WordPress you never stop learning.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>His top recommendation is: “Join your local meetup or think about organizing one, it will introduce you to an amazing world. Don’t be afraid to meet people at WordCamps and Contributor Days, because you will learn more there than in dozens of courses. Talk to people at those events and don’t worry. The WordPress community is inclusive so you’ll always feel welcome, and you will see enthusiasm like you’ve never seen at other IT events. Sign-up and get involved.”</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Share the stories</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Help share these stories of open source contributors and continue to grow the community.&nbsp;Meet more WordPressers in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/category/newsletter/interviews/\">People of WordPress series</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contributors</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Thanks to Stefano Cassone (<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/deadpool76/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>deadpool76</a>)&nbsp;for sharing about his adventures in WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Thank you to Abha Thakor (<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/webcommsat/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>webcommsat</a>), the late Surendra Thakor (<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sthakor/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>sthakor</a>) and Meher Bala (<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/meher/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>meher</a>) for interviews, writing the feature and collaborating on images, to Chloe Bringmann (<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cbringmann/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>cbringmann</a>), Mark Smallman (<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/marks99/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>marks99</a>), Nalini Thakor (<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nalininonstopnewsuk/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>nalininonstopnewsuk</a>), Mary Baum (<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/marybaum/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>marybaum</a>), and Maja Loncar (<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/majaloncar/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>majaloncar</a>) for help with reviews.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The&nbsp;<em>People of WordPress</em>&nbsp;series thanks Josepha Haden (<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chanthaboune/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>chanthaboune</a>) and Topher DeRosia (<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/topher1kenobe/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>topher1kenobe</a>) for their support.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-media-text is-stacked-on-mobile is-vertically-aligned-center\"><img width=\"180\" height=\"135\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2020/03/heropress_logo_180.png?resize=180%2C135&ssl=1\" alt=\"HeroPress logo\" class=\"wp-image-8409 size-full\" /><div class=\"wp-block-media-text__content\">\n<p class=\"has-small-font-size\"><em>This People of WordPress feature is inspired by an essay originally published on </em><a href=\"https://heropress.com/\"><em>HeroPress.com</em></a><em>, a community initiative created by Topher DeRosia. It highlights people in the WordPress community who have overcome barriers and whose stories might otherwise go unheard. </em>#HeroPress </p>\n</div></div>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 31 May 2023 20:48:58 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Abha Thakor\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:28;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:85:\"Post Status: WP 6.3 Planning • WP20 • AI Forum Replies • LearnWP Survey Results\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"https://poststatus.com/?p=149526\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:84:\"https://poststatus.com/wp-6-3-planning-wp20-ai-forum-replies-learnwp-survey-results/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:19172:\"<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-this-week-at-wordpress-org-april-3-2023\">This Week at WordPress.org (May 29, 2023)</h2>\n\n\n<div class=\"has-background has-theme-palette-8-background-color wp-block-post-excerpt\"><p class=\"wp-block-post-excerpt__excerpt\">How did you celebrate WordPress&#8217;s 20th birthday? Read Building Blocks: The Evolution of WordPress, now available on GitHub and e-reader formats. <br /><br />WordPress 6.3 is underway. Core has shared the planning roundup, and the Design team is starting to prepare now.  <br /><br />Support forums recently discussed considerations on using AI to respond to forum issues. Human intervention is still necessary for the foreseeable future. <br /><br />Training team surveyed attendees at the last 3 flagship WordCamps and any additional respondents.  The data is in with feedback on the content and site functionality of Learn.WordPress.org. </p></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-infobox kt-info-box_94d1bd-77\"><div class=\"kt-blocks-info-box-link-wrap kt-blocks-info-box-media-align-left kt-info-halign-left\"><div class=\"kt-blocks-info-box-media-container\"><div class=\"kt-blocks-info-box-media kt-info-media-animate-none\"><div class=\"kadence-info-box-icon-container kt-info-icon-animate-none\"><div class=\"kadence-info-box-icon-inner-container\"><span class=\"kb-svg-icon-wrap kb-svg-icon-fe_userPlus kt-info-svg-icon\"></span></div></div></div></div><div class=\"kt-infobox-textcontent\"><h2 class=\"kt-blocks-info-box-title\">WP 6.3, WP20, AI forum replies, and LearnWP Survey Results</h2><p class=\"kt-blocks-info-box-text\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f973.png\" alt=\"🥳\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/05/celebrating-20-years-of-wordpress/\">Celebrating 20 Years of WordPress</a><br /><br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f4d4.png\" alt=\"📔\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/18/wordpress-6-3-planning-roundup/\">WordPress 6.3 Planning Roundup</a><br /><br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f916.png\" alt=\"🤖\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/support/2023/05/suggested-stance-on-the-use-of-ai-tooling/\">Suggested stance on the use of AI-tooling</a><br /><br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f469-1f3fb-200d-1f3eb.png\" alt=\"👩🏻‍🏫\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/05/30/analysis-of-the-individual-learner-survey-results/\">Analysis of the Individual Learner Survey results</a><br /><br /></p></div></div></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-_b57166-6e\"><div class=\"kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center\"><hr class=\"kt-divider\" /></div></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-news\"><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news\">News</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/05/celebrating-20-years-of-wordpress/\">Celebrating 20 Years of WordPress</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wp20.wordpress.net/celebrate-20-years-of-wordpress-by-exploring-the-20-year-written-history-of-the-project/\">Celebrate 20 Years of WordPress by Exploring the 20-Year Written History of the Project</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wp20.wordpress.net/download-3d-wp20-themed-media/\">Download 3D WP20-Themed&nbsp;Media</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-_8f6276-eb\"><div class=\"kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center\"><hr class=\"kt-divider\" /></div></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-10\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow\">\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">WordPress 6.3</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/design/2023/05/25/wordpress-6-3-design-kickoff/\">WordPress 6.3 design kickoff</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/25/bug-scrub-schedule-for-6-3/\">Bug Scrub Schedule for WordPress 6.3</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/18/wordpress-6-3-planning-roundup/\">WordPress 6.3 Planning Roundup</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/18/roadmap-to-6-3/\">Roadmap to 6.3</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/accessibility\">Accessibility</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/accessibility/2023/05/31/accessibility-team-meeting-agenda-june-2-2023/\">Accessibility Team Meeting Agenda: June 2, 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-community\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community\">Community</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/05/26/notes-of-community-team-discussion-on-may-25-2023/\">Notes of Community Team Discussion on May 25, 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/05/24/recap-of-the-diverse-speaker-training-group-wpdiversity-amer-emea-on-may-24-2023/\">Recap of the Diverse Speaker Training group (#WPDiversity) AMER/EMEA on May 24, 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-core\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core\">Core</a> </h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/17/command-center-request-for-feedback/\">Command Center: Request for feedback</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/16/proposal-retiring-older-default-themes/\">Proposal: Retiring Older Default Themes</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/22/core-editor-improvement-smoother-site-editing/\">Core Editor Improvement: Smoother Site Editing</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-developer-blog\"><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/\">Developer Blog</a></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/05/customizing-core-block-style-variations-via-theme-json/\">Customizing core block style variations via theme.json</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-meetings\">Meetings</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/31/dev-chat-agenda-may-31-2022/\">Dev Chat agenda, May 31, 2022</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/30/editor-chat-agenda-31-may-2023/\">Editor Chat Agenda: 31st May 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/27/editor-chat-summary-24-may-2023/\">Editor chat summary: 24 May, 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Design</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/design/2023/05/25/wordpress-6-3-design-kickoff/\">WordPress 6.3 design kickoff</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-docs\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/docs\">Docs</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2023/05/29/documentation-team-update-may-29-2023/\">Documentation Team Update – May 29, 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-hosting\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/hosting\">Hosting</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/hosting/2023/05/15/is-wordpress-compatible-with-php-8/\">Is WordPress compatible with PHP 8?</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-marketing\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing\">Marketing</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2023/05/27/day-20-wp20-from-blogs-to-blocks/\">Day 20: #WP20 From Blogs to Blocks</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2023/05/26/day-19-wp20-from-blogs-to-blocks/\">Day 19: #WP20 From Blogs to Blocks</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2023/05/25/day-18-wp20-from-blogs-to-blocks/\">Day 18: #WP20 From Blogs to Blocks</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/meta\">Meta</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/meta/2023/05/31/agenda-biweekly-matrix-chat-thu-june-1-2023-10am-utc/\">Agenda: Biweekly Matrix Chat – Thu, June 1, 2023 (10AM UTC)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/meta/2023/05/31/two-factor-auth-available-to-test-on-wordpress-org/\">Two-Factor Auth available to test on WordPress.org</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-mobile\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/mobile\">Mobile</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/mobile/2023/04/11/contribute-to-the-future-of-the-wordpress-app/\">Contribute to the Future of the WordPress App</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-openverse\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/openverse\">Openverse</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/openverse/2023/05/29/last-week-openverse-2023-05-22-2023-05-29/\">A week in Openverse: 2023-05-22 – 2023-05-29</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/openverse/2023/05/24/community-meeting-recap-2023-05-22/\">Community Meeting Recap (2023-05-22)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/openverse/2023/05/23/openverse-monthly-priorities-meeting-2023-06-07/\">Openverse Monthly Priorities Meeting 2023-06-07</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/openverse/2023/05/22/last-week-openverse-2023-05-15-2023-05-22/\">A week in Openverse: 2023-05-15 – 2023-05-22</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-performance\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/performance/\">Performance</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/30/performance-chat-summary-30-may-2023/\">Performance Chat Summary: 30 May 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2023/05/31/core-performance-team-update-may-2023/\">Core Performance Team Update: May 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow\">\n<p></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-plugins\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins\">Plugins</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2023/05/17/plugin-review-team-update/\">Plugin Review Team Update</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2023/03/21/use-of-code-generators-must-remain-gpl-compatible/\">Use of Code Generators Must Remain GPL Compatible</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2023/03/10/advance-notice-of-retirement/\">Advance Notice of Retirement</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-polyglots\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots\">Polyglots</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2023/05/31/improving-translation-suggestions-other-languages/\">Improving Translation Suggestions [Other Languages]</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2023/05/31/agenda-weekly-polyglots-chat-may-31-2023-0700-utc/\">Agenda: Weekly Polyglots Chat – May 31, 2023 (07:00 UTC)</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-project\">Project</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/project/2023/05/30/proposal-establishment-of-a-formal-wordpress-sustainability-team/\">Proposal: establishment of a formal WordPress Sustainability Team</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/project/2023/05/17/wordpress-contributor-mentorship-program-pilot-program-proposal/\">WordPress Contributor Mentorship Program: Pilot Program Proposal</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Support</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/support/2023/05/suggested-stance-on-the-use-of-ai-tooling/\">Suggested stance on the use of AI-tooling</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/support/2023/05/agenda-for-may-18th-support-meeting-2/\">Agenda for May 18th Support Meeting</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-test\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test\">Test</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/05/18/fse-program-testing-call-23-rapid-revamp/\">FSE Program Testing Call #23: Rapid Revamp</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2023/05/29/test-team-update-29-may-2023/\">Test Team Update: 29 May 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-theme\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/theme\">Theme</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/themes/2023/05/31/themes-team-meeting-notes-may-30-2023/\">Themes Team Meeting Notes – May 30, 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/themes/2023/05/26/summary-curating-the-editor-and-building-block-themes-for-clients/\">Summary: Curating the Editor and building block themes for clients</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/themes/2023/05/18/hallway-hangout-curating-the-editor-and-building-block-themes-for-clients/\">Hallway Hangout: Curating the editor and building block themes for clients</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/themes/2023/05/17/theme-handbook-overhaul-phase-2-creating-content/\">Theme Handbook Overhaul: Phase 2 (Creating Content)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2023/05/30/themes-team-update-may-30-2023/\">Themes team update May 30, 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-training\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training\">Training</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/05/09/brainstorm-wordcamp-europe-2023-contributor-day/\">Brainstorm – WordCamp Europe 2023 Contributor Day</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/05/24/training-team-meeting-recap-for-may-23rd-2023/\">Training Team Meeting Recap for May 23rd, 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-tutorials\"><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorials\">Tutorials</a></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorial/managing-a-wordpress-multisite-network/\">Managing a WordPress Multisite Network</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-online-workshops\">Online Workshops</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=live-stream-creating-a-block-theme-for-developers-part-3\">Live stream: Creating a block theme for developers. Part 3</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=training-team-wordcamp-eu-contributor-day-online-session\">Training Team WordCamp EU Contributor Day Online Session</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=using-the-row-and-stack-blocks\">Using the row and stack blocks</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=nesting-blocks-and-advanced-block-layouts-2\">Nesting blocks and advanced block layouts</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=wp-dev-livestream-sendig-block-theme-4\">WP dev livestream: Sendig block theme</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=wordpress-coding-standards\">WordPress Coding Standards</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=custom-css-in-the-site-editing-era\">Custom CSS in the Site-Editing Era</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=%E3%82%A2%E3%83%83%E3%83%97%E3%83%87%E3%83%BC%E3%83%88%E3%81%A8%E8%84%86%E5%BC%B1%E6%80%A7\">アップデートと脆弱性</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-courses\"><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/courses\">Courses</a></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/creating-a-4-page-business-website/\">Creating a 4-page business website</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-wp-cli\">WP-CLI</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/cli/2023/04/05/wp-cli-v2-8-0-release-date/\">WP-CLI v2.8.0 release date</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-wptv\">WPTV</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/category/year/2022/\">Latest WordPress TV videos</a></li>\n</ul>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-related-news\">Related News:</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://blog.jquery.com/2023/05/11/jquery-3-7-0-released-staying-in-order/\">jQuery 3.7.0</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://nodejs.org/en/blog/release/v20.2.0\">Node v20.2.0 released</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.php.net/archive/2023.php#2023-04-13-1\"></a><a href=\"https://www.php.net/archive/2023.php#2023-05-11-1\">PHP 8.2.6 Released!</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.php.net/archive/2023.php#2023-05-11-2\">PHP 8.1.19 Released!</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://262.ecma-international.org/13.0/\">TC39</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/composer/composer/releases/tag/2.5.5\">Composer 2.5.5</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-theme-palette-7-background-color has-background\">Thanks for reading our WP dot .org roundup! Each week we are highlighting the news and discussions coming from the good folks making WordPress possible. If you or your company create products or services that use WordPress, you need to be engaged with them and their work. Be sure to share this resource with your product and project managers. <br /><br /><strong>Are you interested in giving back and contributing your time and skills to WordPress.org?</strong> <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f64f.png\" alt=\"🙏\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/article/contributing-to-wordpress/\">Start Here ›</a><br /><br /><strong>Get our weekly WordPress community news digest</strong> — Post Status&#8217; <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/news/week-in-review/\">Week in Review</a> — covering the WP/Woo news plus significant writing and podcasts. It&#8217;s also available in <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/newsletter\">our newsletter</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f48c.png\" alt=\"💌\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-media-text alignwide is-stacked-on-mobile has-background\"><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/\"><img src=\"https://poststatus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/vertical-post-status-logo-250.png\" alt=\"Post Status\" class=\"wp-image-85823 size-full\" /></a><div class=\"wp-block-media-text__content\">\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left has-normal-font-size\" id=\"h-get-ready-for-remote-work\">You — and <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/#Agency\">your whole team</a> can <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/#choose-membership\">Join Post Status</a> too!</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left has-small-font-size\"><strong>Build your network. Learn with others. Find your next job — or your next hire.</strong> Read the <strong>Post Status</strong> <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/newsletter/\">newsletter</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/2709.png\" alt=\"✉\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Listen to <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/podcasts/\">podcasts</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f399.png\" alt=\"🎙\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Follow <a href=\"https://twitter.com/post_status/\">@Post_Status</a> <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f426.png\" alt=\"🐦\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> and <a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/company/post-status-llc/\">LinkedIn</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f4bc.png\" alt=\"💼\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n<p>This article was published at Post Status — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 31 May 2023 16:48:19 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Courtney Robertson\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:29;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:67:\"WPTavern: #78 – Mike McAlister on Why Block Themes Are the Future\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=145590\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:81:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/78-mike-mcalister-on-why-block-themes-are-the-future\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:55259:\"Transcript<div>\n<p>[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, a journey inside creating a block-based theme.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast, player of choice. Or by going to WPTavern.com forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you all your idea featured on the show. Head to WPTavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox, and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We released these podcast episodes every Wednesday, but next week there&#8217;s going to be a break. I&#8217;m going to be heading to WordCamp Europe in Athens to record some more interviews. And if you&#8217;re there, I do hope that our paths cross. Normal service will resume soon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today we have Mike McAlister, and he&#8217;s here to talk about his experiences creating a block-based theme.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike is a veteran product developer and designer in the WordPress space. He founded and sold multiple WordPress products, like Array Themes and Atomic Blocks. Now he&#8217;s focused on the future of WordPress with his new product brand, Ollie.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike kicks off the podcast by telling us about his WordPress journey, and how WordPress blocks have renewed his passion for the platform. We get into some history and talk about the era when WordPress themes were extremely popular. Marketplaces like in Envato made it possible to sell themes and creates a career in ways hitherto unimagined.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike explains what the key differences are between a block-based theme and a classic theme. How it&#8217;s possible to create themes inside the editor and how you can do this without needing to know much code.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We talk about the fact that, if you are a coding expert, you could always create complex themes, but this fresh approach opens up the possibilities for those with less technical backgrounds. The experience in the editor might not be exactly what everyone wants, but it&#8217;s evolving quickly and maturing with every new release of WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The conversation moves onto why Mike is so confident that block-based themes are going to succeed. You don&#8217;t need to use one, and your trustee classic theme and the associated customizer, will work for the foreseeable future.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We then turn our attention to the technical hurdles that Mike has had to overcome. What new workflows and tools did he need to adopt and master to make his work possible? Mike&#8217;s been really focused on using WordPress core blocks to create his themes, digging into the weeds of what they can do and what their limitations are. It&#8217;s been a part of steady learning punctuated with minor setbacks when the editor and blocks are updated in unexpected ways. Thankfully, these bumps in the road are now relics of the past, as breaking changes have given way to stability.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We then talk about a specific theme that Mike has just released. It&#8217;s called Ollie, and it&#8217;s the focus of the rest of the podcast. How did Mike build Ollie, and what is he hoping to achieve with this new brand?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Patterns feature heavily in Ollie we talk about how it&#8217;s possible to alter the look and feel of your site quickly. Typography and colors are easy to change with the new suite of design tools which ship with WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re wanting to develop block-based themes, or are just curious about how other developers are building them, this podcast is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to WPTavern.com forward slash podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all of the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Mike McAlister.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast today by Mike McAlister. Hello, Mike.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:51] Mike McAlister: Hello. Thanks for having me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:52] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, you&#8217;re very welcome. Mike is going to be talking to us today about block based themes, block patterns, blocks in general, I&#8217;m sure. And if you haven&#8217;t been in the WordPress space for any great length of time, you are about to learn about Mike&#8217;s pretty impressive history in the WordPress space.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So Mike, it&#8217;s a fairly generic question, but I hope you don&#8217;t mind us asking you at first, just to orientate the listeners. Would you mind just telling us a little bit about yourself and your history, coding, theming, and whatever kind of other work you&#8217;ve done in the WordPress space.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:24] Mike McAlister: Absolutely. Yeah, I&#8217;ve been around WordPress for some time now, probably since about 2010. 2009, 2010. So fairly early on. And I think I came upon WordPress like many folks, building client sites and looking for just a better way to do it. You know, when you&#8217;re in that world and you stumble upon WordPress, you&#8217;re like, whoa, light bulb moment. This is going to be a game changer.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So yeah, I started pretty early on using WordPress to build websites for clients. And then at some point, I started to see the commercial aspect of it, right? Instead of building one theme for one client, I could build one theme and maybe sell it to a thousand different clients.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so I experimented pretty early on with, you know, I have a history in design and so that was my focus. I thought that could be a differentiator for me. I&#8217;ll make themes that are just beautifully crafted, really lightweight. Maybe they don&#8217;t do everything under the hood, but they do specific things very well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so Array was the first theme shop that I had. And I operated all over the place. I had themes on my own site. I had them on the Themeforest marketplaces. I was selling themes on wordpress.com. So I was kind of everywhere and growing. And then at one point blocks became a thing, and so I dipped into there and started experimenting with blocks, via the Atomic Blocks theme which grew really quickly, it was one of the first block themes out there. And I think it was, blocks were still a really new thing and people were trying to understand what they were and what the benefits could be.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so having a plugin out there with all these examples in it, and kind of showing that, oh no, you can replace all kinds of stuff. Like short codes and all of these other archaic ways of building could be done with blocks now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I worked on that for a bit. And then in 2018 WP Engine acquired both the theme shop and the Atomic Blocks plugin. And worked there for four and a half years, and then just recently I have gone back into the freelance and entrepreneurial space.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:21] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you very much indeed. That&#8217;s really, really interesting and it sounds to me at least anyway, as if you arrived on the WordPress scene, not only with the right products, but also at the right time. You kind of managed to hit that tidal wave just as it was creating out in the ocean somewhere.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And you had the product. Everybody was buying themes at that time. Became really, really popular. Do you consider yourself to have had a lucky break there, in the sense that, do you feel that that is something which can be repeated in the year 2023? Or do you think that block themes and just themes in general, the shine and the commercial prospects of that has dwindled a little bit?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:04] Mike McAlister: That early era was certainly something special. I think there was just so much attention focused on themes, and as this new shiny thing. And they unlocked a lot of capabilities for people. They were able to go from, trying to make their own sites. To making their own designs. To having these tried and tested templates.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so that was a huge thing. And the rise of the Envato market at the time was a huge part of that success. Love it or hate it, at the time, that was a huge thing and proliferated WordPress themes out into the world, beyond our bubble. And so that I think was a huge deal at the time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, whether or not now we can kind of replicate that is really tough to say, because since then the market has become quite saturated, in that there are so many different ways of building with WordPress. And you have things that are spinning off like Elementor going off into their own world.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They&#8217;re still kind of one foot in WordPress, one foot out. And we have all of these other. website builders that we didn&#8217;t have back then, other platforms. So there&#8217;s just so many different ways to build a website. WordPress is still massively popular, even if it&#8217;s slowly declining.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We still have such a huge footprint on the web that it, there&#8217;s a ton of potential So, I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ll see the same wave we saw before. I do think though that this whole new world of the block paradigm and block themes. It is the biggest opportunity commercially in WordPress I think that we&#8217;ve seen in a very long time. It may be the biggest we see for a long time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:38] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. I think we should probably stray into that right, the outset, if that&#8217;s okay. Because, there&#8217;s probably a proportion of people who are listening to this podcast who are very, very technical. They completely get what you mean by block based themes and the opportunity afforded there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But equally, there may be a bunch of people who are listening to this who genuinely have no idea that there is such a thing as a block based theme. They&#8217;ve got a, what we would now call a classic theme, and it&#8217;s installed and it has been for a long time. And as far as they&#8217;re aware, there&#8217;s no change in their WordPress website. Things just carry on as normal.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But are you able to describe to us, I know this is a difficult question, and certainly trying to cram it into a portion of a WordPress podcast is a big ask. But are you able to give us a high level view on what a block theme is, and how it differs from a classic theme? Something which you might know, if you&#8217;ve got access to the customizer, you have a classic theme. If you don&#8217;t, you don&#8217;t. And so let&#8217;s take it from there. What are they and what do they promise?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:34] Mike McAlister: Absolutely. So, let&#8217;s first just do quick block refresher in general. So blocks, instead of throwing your content all into TinyMCE or the content area, and kind of making it mostly text-based, and throwing some other little elements in with things like short codes, like we used to do in the past. Blocks, they&#8217;re basically content elements. It could be anything from a button, to a paragraph, to an image gallery, to a slider.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And all of these things you add to the WordPress editor. And they could be used to build, you know, more beautiful content. They could be used to build page sections. They can be used to build a full page. And you put together enough blocks, and you can build an entire theme with it, right? So, WordPress comes with many blocks built in. And all of these things you use to build your website now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So with that in mind, block themes are effectively entire WordPress themes that are built entirely with blocks. And the benefit of that is that it makes your website almost entirely editable by you, in the editor. So instead of having to, you know, if you want to change your header, instead of going into the code and opening up the code editor and tinkering there and saving and going back to your site. You can go into the site editor and WordPress, which is effectively a interface inside the WordPress admin, where you can create your header.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can modify it. You can change the colors. You can add new links. You can change out your site logo. And all of that happens in the editor. It can be a no-code or low-code experience for you. So the benefit here is the customization, right? We can now get closer to the experience that you might have seen at something like a Squarespace or Wix where the interface and the experience is tailored around creation, and it&#8217;s more focused around that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:31] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I guess if you are an expert themer and you&#8217;ve been creating themes for years, what it brings to the table, the way that you construct them is different. But you&#8217;ve always been able to achieve whatever it is that you wanted to achieve because you could write the code. But I suppose what this is bringing is the capability for non-technical people to be able to modify just any part of the site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I guess the header is typically fairly constrained, you know, header, navigation, logo, that kind of thing is normally what we see. But perhaps a better example would be a footer. Because typically your footer would be controlled by the theme and you&#8217;d go into the customizer and modify whatever options were available to you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Whereas now you can just build out rows, columns, put in images, put in contact forms, whatever you like, other navigation menus, anything. If you can imagine it as something that you can build in the block editor, that can then become your footer. You don&#8217;t need to dabble in any code at all. There&#8217;s a lot going on there, but you don&#8217;t need to be involved in that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so non-technical people can become involved in that process and, you know, enjoy creating different aspects, different parts of their theme. That being said, what are your thoughts on the state of the UI for editing themes at the moment? We&#8217;re in May 2023. Version 6.2 of WordPress is the current latest version.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think it&#8217;s fair to say that it&#8217;s not where it probably wants to be in the end, but how do you think about it? How do you think about the UI? You&#8217;ve probably been in there, you&#8217;ve ironed out all the kinks, and got over all the road bumps that were in the way. But for a typical user, a non-technical user, do you feel it&#8217;s delivered on the promise that it hoped to?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:09] Mike McAlister: I don&#8217;t think so yet. I talked to all kinds of WordPress users from novices to veterans. And the number one thing that always comes up is the UI the UX, the experience. And, you know, I get it because we&#8217;ve known WordPress for 20 years now. We&#8217;re celebrating a 20 year anniversary right now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And it has been one way for a very long time. And even some of the big changes that came, like the customizer, they weren&#8217;t that big of a change, right? They were bolted on and they were additive and iterative. But the block editor and going into the site editor and full site editing, these kinds of things, it&#8217;s quite different.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s adding a lot to WordPress. It&#8217;s a lot of new context. It&#8217;s a lot of new paradigms. It&#8217;s a lot of new workflows, and I think that is a very difficult thing for people to figure out. Especially with the past few years where things have been shifting so much and people don&#8217;t know quite when to hop in. And then when they do, it doesn&#8217;t work exactly like they had anticipated.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Or some of the features are released as working prototypes. We&#8217;re kind of met with these things. And so I get the frustration when you hop in there and somebody&#8217;s telling you, oh, it&#8217;s way better, and you can do all this stuff now, and you&#8217;re, you install a block theme from dot org and it&#8217;s like half busted, and the styles don&#8217;t work and you don&#8217;t know your way around. So I get it. It can be a very frustrating experience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I will say the past few releases I think have been a lot better. And they&#8217;re ironing out a lot of the kinks. The ground underneath the software isn&#8217;t moving as much from release to release. And if you follow along on some of the GitHub tickets or you stumble into some of those, there&#8217;s a great deal of discussion going on about the many shortcomings of the UX. And so it is something that&#8217;s always being worked on. And I think it&#8217;s important to just remember that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It is never going to be easy to change, to drastically change, a piece of software that is being used for so many use cases, for so many people. We know it powers half the web and to make a leap into the block era like this, it was never going to be easy. It was never going to be comfortable.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We hope that it will be worth it in that, these kind of growing pains in this transition will give us a new era. It will refresh WordPress. It will make it viable for another 10, 20 years. It will give us the new tools to keep up with these other platforms that are maybe outperforming us. And so while the growing pains are there and the experience is a little rough, I do think that it is all for the greater good of the software.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:45] Nathan Wrigley: Let&#8217;s explore the sort of reverse of that, if you like. And I&#8217;m going to use a product that I have as an example. I use Gmail to do my emails. And I have this Chrome extension, and the Chrome extension alters the Gmail interface in a way, which allows me to be slightly more productive. I won&#8217;t get into the detail, but it does that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And every couple of weeks something breaks, because Gmail alter some aspect of their interface. And the guy that makes the Chrome extension, he&#8217;s not in the loop of that. And the thing breaks and he has to contact all of his users and say, right on it. And gets it fixed and so on and so forth.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I feel, as we&#8217;re going to discuss in the future, you are now really committed to having a proportion of your income come from block based themes, and yet at the same time, although you&#8217;ve got, you&#8217;ve got a voice there and you&#8217;ve definitely got skin in the game. You are reliant upon the technology stack that is WordPress and it&#8217;s in a constant state of flux.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You said it&#8217;s not quite there yet. I just wondered, and I don&#8217;t wish for you to become incendiary or anything like that. I wondered if you could highlight some of the grievances that you, well, not grievances, some of the things that you wish were better right now. Some of the areas where, if you could be in control of just fixing it by clicking your fingers, what would you amend?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:03] Mike McAlister: Ooh, that&#8217;s a, that&#8217;s a really good question. Although I&#8217;m just releasing a block theme now, I&#8217;ve been dipping into and exploring block themes for years now. And only until recently did I feel like, okay, this is ready enough to put something out there. Because I&#8217;ve run a product business before, and a WordPress theme business before and support is a huge part of that, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And in these early days of the block editor and block themes, with it being, you know, on a bit of shaky ground. Putting something out there I&#8217;ve seen it as like a support nightmare. I&#8217;m going to end up not just supporting my theme, I&#8217;m going to end up educating people on tons and tons of WordPress features, which I think that&#8217;s okay and great. And I think it&#8217;s actually a business model in itself.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You don&#8217;t want to take on the frustration of the users, and have them funnel that through to something that&#8217;s your product, right? And they look at something I&#8217;m making and say, this thing sucks, or whatever. When really it&#8217;s just they don&#8217;t know this new WordPress yet, or they haven&#8217;t had the time, or that the pitfalls and the UX hurdles are being kind of painted onto your product. So yeah, I think up until recently I&#8217;ve felt like, okay, this is, it&#8217;s still going to be a bit of a transition, but I think it&#8217;ll be less painful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that being said if I could snap my fingers and have one thing, well I&#8217;ve just recently written a post about responsive controls, which is another big hurdle. But I think even more than that, I would snap my fingers and bring together this UI UX in a way that makes a lot more sense.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I feel like we&#8217;re in two worlds here. I think we have many remnants of the old WordPress. In fact, if you&#8217;re not in the site editor, you maybe wouldn&#8217;t even know that there&#8217;s a new WordPress. You&#8217;re looking at the same sidebar, same posts, pages. All of that is the same and that&#8217;s great. That&#8217;s worked well for a long time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But now we have our other foot in this whole new era of the site editor and block editor and blocks and block themes. And then when you&#8217;re in the site editor you can edit things live and do all this stuff. And so I feel like there are two entirely different WordPresses existing in WP admin. And it is, to me, not a great experience. I feel like if we&#8217;re going to go this route, I feel like it should be almost entirely wrapped around the site editor experience, and we&#8217;re able to do almost everything in there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that gives us an opportunity to maybe rethink, and this is, I know, grandiose and big ideas, and there&#8217;s probably a lot of people who are cringing at the thought of redoing a lot of WordPress. But I think that there is an argument to be made about kind of moving forward in a more bold and meaningful way. And tying that experience together. So that when you&#8217;re editing a page, it looks like you&#8217;re editing a page, and not like you&#8217;re editing a page with content field or something like that, you know? So the great unification of sorts.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:57] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you. That&#8217;s really fascinating. In terms of the skillset that you&#8217;ve had to adopt over the last period of time. When you decided, okay, I&#8217;m going to go all in on blocks. And it sounds like you&#8217;ve been doing this really, right from the beginning, which is fairly impressive. Very prescient of you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What are the new interesting, perhaps difficult, things that you&#8217;ve had to learn? The new tooling that you&#8217;ve had to acquire? What has had to become part of workflow over the last few years, which is different from how it would&#8217;ve been five, six years ago?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:26] Mike McAlister: Yeah, it&#8217;s It&#8217;s quite fascinating actually, because I think those of us who are in WordPress a long time, you would typically think that the answer would be like, oh, I had to learn Webpack or React or whatever. And if you&#8217;re building blocks, that might be the case. When I&#8217;m talking about block themes, it&#8217;s not a technical skillset that I&#8217;ve had to pick up.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But literally just spending the time in WordPress and understanding how all these things work together. Learning fluently how to build with all of the core blocks, in a way that you can build a layout using columns and groups, and the alignment settings, and justification and the row block. It is a skill that has to be learned use all these things fluently, and to just know it like the back of your hand so that you can go and build out a pattern, a page, whatever it is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that did take, even for a WordPress veteran like me, quite a bit of time to get fluid with that stuff. But learning all of that stuff and then kind of dipping into block themes, that made that process a whole lot easier. Because block themes are just all of those things. It&#8217;s the row block. It&#8217;s the group block. It&#8217;s using the padding settings and building a design system with theme json.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that becomes a skillset in itself. And that&#8217;s where I spent so much time. And I think that&#8217;s why when I released this Ollie theme that we&#8217;ll talk about, I think a lot of people were kind of like blown away. Like, oh, you can do all this with this new stuff. And it&#8217;s all core and native features.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it took me a long time to pull all that stuff together and to be able to present it and a package that was like, oh, okay, this is coherent and well made and well designed and it actually works.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:07] Nathan Wrigley: How much does the sand shift beneath your feet? So you mentioned earlier about getting skilled with the interface and using the group block and managing it to make these pixel perfect, really beautiful layouts which we&#8217;ll get onto in a moment. How steady has that process been?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Or have you noticed that your designs from, well, let&#8217;s not say month to month, maybe half a year to half a year. Are there things which come along in the core blocks, changes which are made in the core blocks, which upset what you&#8217;ve managed to lay out in this perfect way? Or has the progress been steady away? Everything looks the same today as it did a year ago.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:43] Mike McAlister: At this point, it&#8217;s very steady. The core blocks, the group blocks and things like this, buttons. These are not changing in any major way. There are little additions being made, but they&#8217;re iterative, and they&#8217;re backwards compatible as far as I&#8217;ve seen. There might be every once in a while, the spacing&#8217;s a little off or something like that and usually gets fixed pretty good.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I think with the amount of people using the Gutenberg plugin, where a lot of these big features are tried and tested and workshopped. I think there&#8217;s a good amount of eyeballs on these features there. That definitely helps, by the time it gets to core, it&#8217;s been vetted, it&#8217;s been worked out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>People actually build with Gutenberg enabled. So I think there&#8217;s that. And so these days, when creating a theme, I didn&#8217;t have any major issues with the fundamentals.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:31] Nathan Wrigley: Nice. I&#8217;m going to direct everybody listening to this podcast. Maybe just pause and go to this URL. The URL is olliewp.com. It is, as you might expect, o l l i e w p .com and have a little poke around. Have a look at what Mike has built, and what&#8217;s on offer. But just tell us about the theme itself. I&#8217;ve had a little bit of a play.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I downloaded it. Currently, we can get onto this and the reasons for moment, it&#8217;s on, available on GitHub. You download it from there, and I installed it on a local install and had a play. Tell us a little bit, what&#8217;s the thinking here? Are you trying to make one theme that anybody can use? Do you have a particular niche in mind? What&#8217;s going on with Ollie?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:13] Mike McAlister: I think Ollie started as an experiment for myself. I used it as an opportunity to, like I was saying, to learn all of these features. And one of the best ways to learn them is to build a block theme. Because it forces you to use all these different things, like patterns and global styles, and theme json. All of these features that make up a good block theme.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, I started it as an experiment to learn, and then along the way, you know, as a product minded person, and somebody who&#8217;s had a theme shop before, I thought, no, there is some commercial value here. I don&#8217;t know what it is yet. But I thought on top of it being a potential pivot for me to do, I just saw it as an opportunity to dip back into WordPress in a more meaningful way, in the product space.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I like creating things that people can learn from. I like putting things together in a package that you can hand off to somebody or send them the repo and they can see, and pick through the code and learn. And so that was the kind of intent behind Ollie. And right now it is, it&#8217;s just one theme with a bunch of beautiful patterns in it that you can use to quickly build out pages.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m just using this early phase of Ollie to see what people think. How are people building with block themes? Are they building block themes? I think there&#8217;s so much unknown about this space because it&#8217;s so new, I&#8217;m just kind of sitting back and just learning and listening and watching people.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Do they want more patterns? Do they want pre-made sites with block themes? There&#8217;s so many questions that I have. I&#8217;m using it as an opportunity to effectively ask these questions and learn.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:41] Nathan Wrigley: The thing that really struck me, I should add at this point that I saw this from an article in the WP Tavern, which Sarah Gooding wrote on April 26th, 2023. I&#8217;ll link to that in the show notes. The thing that struck me immediately was the patterns. And I saw screenshots of the patterns and I thought, wow, they look great.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And there was a video that I think she put together, scrolling through some of the patterns and thought actually that&#8217;s new, that&#8217;s interesting. They are right on the money for me. They look how I wish I could do things. And so downloaded the theme and really discovered that you really have gone to town with the patterns. I don&#8217;t know what the number is. It certainly looks like it&#8217;s more than 50 or 60 or something like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That feels like where a lot of your endeavors have gone. So you&#8217;ve categorized them, obviously now in the site editor you can you click on the patterns button and then subcategories come down. And then a nice thumbnail appears, and you can enlarge those if you wish, on a big modal, which takes up the whole screen and so on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You&#8217;ll see straight away that the effort in building a typical website, brochure site for somebody has been taken away. So that&#8217;s my question. Did you approach this with patterns in mind? Like this is going to be a repository of great patterns and the rest hopefully will build itself, if you know what I mean.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:56] Mike McAlister: Yeah, absolutely. I knew right away patterns were and are going to be a huge deal. Way back, late 2019, I was even playing with this rudimentary idea of what patterns could be with my friend John Paris. We experimented and prototyped out this idea of sections and layouts in WordPress. And it was effectively what would become patterns. This idea that you have pre-designed sections of your site, that you can click together like Lego pieces and make full layouts.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;ve always looked at patterns as a huge opportunity because it takes the pain out of building websites or even just sections. If I&#8217;m able to put together a beautifully designed hero section, or a featured section with blocks and make it look great and hand it over to you. You can throw that on your page. You don&#8217;t have to mess with the design. You just tweak the colors if you want, and change the content. And then you go about your business.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;ve removed the pain of even you having to build your own blocks or your own patterns. And hopefully that is the paradigm that we go with. Hopefully people latch onto this idea that maybe I don&#8217;t have to tinker with every single part of my website. Maybe just going with these beautiful designs, changing the content, changing the color, and then focusing on my content, and focusing on my audience and focusing on my following. And I think the patterns are going to be a huge deal for sure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:21] Nathan Wrigley: Truly I think the designs are absolutely fabulous. They are categorized into posts, texts, call to action, cards, features, heroes, pages, prices and testimonials. Who knows, maybe that will be expanded over time. But in each of those there&#8217;s in some cases a handful and in many cases multiple dozens really of different patterns that you can select.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And if you&#8217;ve never had the experience of doing this in a theme, you just pick on one that you like, and you just click on the icon and there it is. It&#8217;s now the next part of your website. And you can then amend it, you can change it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Give us a bit of an insight into what people can do in terms of saving things. So let&#8217;s imagine that they&#8217;re using yours as sort of boiler plate and they&#8217;re going to click things in, but they want to amend the colors. Yours is fairly opinionated. It&#8217;s nice dark black, and there&#8217;s this lovely kind of blue color, which dominates everywhere. But obviously that might not fit with everybody.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Is it fairly straightforward, again for inexperienced users, to save those and modify them and keep their own modifications with this new site editing interface?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:25] Mike McAlister: Absolutely. That&#8217;s kind of the beautiful part about this, right? Is that you can go into one of your preexisting pages and click to add one of the patterns I&#8217;ve designed, and put it on your page. Or you can throw a full layout, which I&#8217;ve included a few full layouts, like home, about, and features, and things like this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You throw it onto your page. You customize it how you want. You can change the content inline. You can change the colors on the page if you want. Or you can go to the global styles in the site editor, and you can change that bluish purple color that I&#8217;ve chosen to whatever color you want, your brand color. And instead of going through and changing it in every little pattern, it will change that color on every single pattern I&#8217;ve included in this theme.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you don&#8217;t have to go change the colors anywhere. It will literally propagate that color throughout the whole site. Because this whole thing is a live design system, right? It&#8217;s effectively a design system that is tied into every aspect of WordPress. So when you&#8217;re in the site editor, when you&#8217;re in posts, when you&#8217;re in pages, all of these styles travel with these patterns.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Even typography, you don&#8217;t like the font? You can change the font. It&#8217;ll propagate through the whole thing because that&#8217;s how this is all wired up. So yeah, so if you want to go in and change a page, all you do is, you go in there, add a pattern, save it. Save it just like you would any other page. And it&#8217;s good to go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:47] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, it is increasingly becoming a really compelling system. It just requires people like you to get as many people over that hump as possible and experiencing it. But I can only say if you download it, have a go. Within minutes I suspect that you&#8217;ll have something that you are very, very happy with and that you can modify.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In terms of the patterns of themselves, is that an area that you&#8217;ve explored? Or would like to explore commercially? So okay, I know you&#8217;ve got Ollie, but have you given any thought to the commercial possibilities of just patterns, simply patterns? Not bound to any theme. Just a downloadable set of patterns. And obviously you&#8217;re a very, very credible designer, we can see that. That you could then give to people, sell to people, so that they can download them into any site no matter what block-based theme they&#8217;re using.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:34] Mike McAlister: I always knew patterns were going to be a big deal. But I think, after just releasing Ollie to GitHub and seeing it get picked up by a few news outlets and some people on YouTube, were making videos about it. I think the number one thing everyone always raves about is the patterns. And maybe if they&#8217;ve explored patterns before on wordpress.org or used other themes that have patterns.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I don&#8217;t know if they&#8217;re just kind of underwhelming typically. But I think I did spend a great deal of time making sure these patterns were making a statement. They are saying, no you can do this in WordPress. I wanted to prove that I can design something as good, if not better, than what we had before. And I&#8217;ll do it all with blocks, native blocks. Not one custom blocks in there. These are all just core blocks, and they&#8217;re going to be beautiful, and they&#8217;ll be fully responsive and fully customizable.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so, I think that&#8217;s what people see. And when they see these patterns and how they all cohesively fit together. You can pop these onto a page in any different order and they kind of just fit together and that&#8217;s part of the overall design system. But yeah, so I see patterns as a huge opportunity and I wasn&#8217;t sure commercially. And still I don&#8217;t know. I&#8217;m using this opportunity to ask a lot of questions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I think the first few weeks, the response has been largely very positive about patterns. And so I&#8217;m definitely curious about that. And I think there&#8217;s opportunities to do more advanced patterns, and maybe use some pro blocks to make patterns even more appealing. So yeah, pro patterns is definitely something I&#8217;m exploring</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:07] Nathan Wrigley: You mentioned that you&#8217;d spent a lot of time learning the core blocks, and you also just mentioned that everything that comes with Ollie is based around a core block. Was that a straightforward experience? Or did you find that there are certain limitations in what you could achieve based upon the capabilities of core blocks? Or would you say basically you can implement almost any design you wish with core block? Certainly looks like you&#8217;ve managed to achieve that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:34] Mike McAlister: Sometimes I&#8217;d have an idea of what I wanted to do, and couldn&#8217;t quite do it. But I think if you get clever, you can get really close, right? For example, I would love if WordPress had a icon block. A core icon block that we could tie into. I don&#8217;t want to have to make my own, because there&#8217;s a bunch out there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I also, you know, in terms of the ease of distribution and giving customers designs right out of the box. I don&#8217;t want them to have to install a plugin to do it. And icons are so prolific. I would just hope that we could have that in core. Well, we can&#8217;t have that yet. And so, when doing simple things like wanting to add an icon here for people to see like, kinda like a placeholder for an image or an icon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I used the HTML star, right? And I use that in ratings, you know, in design, like if you want to put a rating there, I put like five HTML stars, and I use it on feature sections. So, clever little things like that. It&#8217;s giving people enough to understand, oh this is what this is meant to be. This is the design. Oh, I might put my own icon here. Or even things like cleverly using the rows and group blocks to get things aligned how you want. Grouping of blocks to do unique things with them, spacing wise. It&#8217;s just a lot of clever usage of what&#8217;s there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think part of that does come from tinkering enough. And if you really want to get that design out of your head and on to the page, you&#8217;ll figure it out. But it might take, it might take some tinkering.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:01] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I&#8217;m on the install that I have at the moment and I&#8217;m on the star rating. You&#8217;ve got five stars, and I can see that they&#8217;re using paragraph blocks. And then elsewhere you&#8217;re using the social icons block to display those social icons. And I guess that&#8217;s the experience you would want, is just pick an icon, much like you do in the social icons block and make it more straightforward. That&#8217;s really interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Why GitHub? Why not the WordPress repo? Was there some sort of decision there? Again, I should emphasize it, at this moment in time, if you want to grab this theme, you&#8217;re going to be heading over to GitHub and downloading it. Why there and not in the repo? Is there a decision behind that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:36] Mike McAlister: No philosophical decision. I think it will be on the repo soon actually. Like I said, with these block themes, there&#8217;s so much to learn and I wanted to put it out there. You know, it worked great for me when I was building it and making it. But I wanted to get it out there and get people using it to understand if there was any major shortcomings or just catch any early usability patterns that I was seeing. Any issues like that and see like, oh, actually people don&#8217;t love these patterns.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Or, is there something about the workflow that I could improve before releasing it to a wider audience? So, I just mostly wanted to iron out all the kinks and GitHub was just the obvious place to do that. But to be honest a lot of the quirks that people have brought up with the theme on GitHub and the GitHub issues and stuff, are largely just Core issues. Just usability, preferences and workflow preferences and things like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I haven&#8217;t uncovered any major issues and so I feel like what I&#8217;m going to do is kind of wrap it up. It&#8217;s already fully tested and gone through the theme check and everything. So it&#8217;s pretty much ready to go. And I think I&#8217;ll do that in the next week or two.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:41] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, okay. In that case, by the time this podcast airs, this question will be somewhat moot. But anyway, worth, asking I think. I noticed as I was moving around on the site, olliewp.com. I noticed buried somewhere was referenced to Ollie Cloud, and that got me thinking, okay, in that case, is Ollie something bigger than simply this one theme?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so that&#8217;s where I&#8217;m going to take the conversation next. Is Ollie, in the same way that you had Array Themes and you had Atomic Blocks. Is Ollie something bigger for you, Mike? Is that a direction that you&#8217;re going to take it in? Are you now hoping to, sort of, have a bunch of things wrapped around in the Ollie branding?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:22] Mike McAlister: I think so. I wasn&#8217;t sure about that initially. Again, this just kind of started as a experimental WordPress theme. But I don&#8217;t know the product creator in me, the entrepreneur in me, always tries to see things from that sphere as well. And so as I&#8217;m looking at the WordPress ecosystem, and I&#8217;m exploring what is this thing like now? It&#8217;s been a while since I&#8217;ve had a product out there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I do see all kinds of opportunities, and I&#8217;m still learning what they are. But I also have my own opinionated ideas about how we could wrap up this new, all these new capabilities, and deliver a new experience. A premium experience with some of this stuff. And so, on the Ollie WP website I had, I do have a box at the bottom about Ollie Cloud. And the idea there, I think is it could be Ollie Cloud, it could be Ollie Pro. I don&#8217;t know. I&#8217;m really just gathering feedback and seeing what people want, as I mentioned.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But the idea is that all of these new features, these theme assets, patterns and theme json files and all that stuff. They&#8217;re all very lightweight, and very movable, and very modular, and they can kind of plug and play in to WordPress. And I don&#8217;t know, I think there&#8217;s an interesting idea about the experience about how we build sites these days.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Should you have to start from scratch on every site? And should we still be copying and pasting themes around like it&#8217;s the mid two thousands? And is there a better way of doing that? Is there a better way of pulling in a site template?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s a lot of interesting things there and I think, another thing I&#8217;m learning, and I think we&#8217;ve seen just generally is that, I don&#8217;t know, I think users are maybe a little fatigued with that in WordPress. Starting with a blank slate and being like, ugh, I have to find a theme and then I have to maybe try out a few themes, and then I don&#8217;t know if I need to pay for one, and then I need a form block, and then all of a sudden I need a buy a contact form.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then there&#8217;s a bunch of upsells for contact forms. And I don&#8217;t know. All that stuff to me, after all these years on WordPress, feels kind of icky. Uh, I guess. And I think customers and users want experiences and solutions more than they want individual themes and plugins. So a premium offering or a premium experience is something I&#8217;m interested in. What kind of experience can we do differently that delivers the same result, but takes all of the pain building on WordPress?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:40:46] Nathan Wrigley: It kind of feels as if you may be repeating history for yourself here in that, you know, 2010. Array themes, we mentioned you were right there at the beginning of that tidal wave. Maybe with a fair wind, the same thing may happen again here? You may well have discovered that seam of gold, just as it&#8217;s starting to take off. Because all the chatter that I&#8217;m listening to at the moment is very much related to blocks and exploring patterns, blocks, block based themes, and how you can maybe tie those three things together.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And pro blocks, which bring additional functionality. You know, areas where Core perhaps doesn&#8217;t cut it. I&#8217;m thinking, in my case, one that just keeps coming into my head is a superior navigation block, that does a whole load of styling and what have you. And who knows what&#8217;s going to be around in two or three years time? But there do seem to be companies who are straying into this and dabbling with it and trying, like you are, I guess, to figure out what the landscape may look like.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:43] Mike McAlister: Yeah, I&#8217;m just as unsure I think as anybody about where this thing goes. But I&#8217;ve never been afraid to try and put in the work to get something going and see where it goes. Like I said at the top, I think there&#8217;s an opportunity here that we&#8217;ve not seen in a long time in WordPress and may never see again.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And if these are the early days of the new generation of WordPress, I&#8217;m certainly going to try and throw my hat into the ring and craft a new experience, and maybe rebrand WordPress, and help outside folks see WordPress in a new light. Because I think that&#8217;s a huge part of this new reboot. Is that WordPress maybe hasn&#8217;t been traditionally like, quote unquote cool, to a lot of web folks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s certainly very popular and very prolific, but we maybe haven&#8217;t attracted the best talent and the best coverage in the wider web world. So, I look at it as an opportunity to rebrand that and maybe grab another cohort of the web that we haven&#8217;t had yet. And I think part of that is new products, and different products, and better looking products, and better experiences, and taking some of the pain out of WordPress that we&#8217;ve traditionally had.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:42:57] Nathan Wrigley: If somebody listening to this is inspired about block themes in general, because that&#8217;s been the broad tenor of what we&#8217;ve talked about. Do you have any names to drop or resources that you&#8217;ve used, that enabled you to learn this kind of stuff? And if you do mention anything, I will endeavor to link it into the show notes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I don&#8217;t mean like a laundry list of hundreds of things, but a couple of things which you thought, actually, for those that are exploring this, this is a really great resource. This is a really profoundly interesting person and so on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:43:24] Mike McAlister: Yeah. First I would start, I&#8217;m somebody who I need to work from examples. I need to see the code and I need to see the, a working thing to get inspired and know how to do things. So, on that note you mentioned that Ollie is on GitHub. It will remain there. This version of Ollie that I&#8217;m putting out is always going to be free. And always going to be on GitHub. So it is a great resource for picking through the code, especially theme json, where I think there&#8217;s so, so much you can do in there, but it is hard to understand what you can do when you&#8217;re kind of looking at it from the outside.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So if you&#8217;re curious, start there, because I&#8217;ve wired this thing together. I think how it should be, or largely how it should be at this moment in time. And so it&#8217;ll give you a great headstart and great understanding of how all these things tie together. So start there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And in terms of people, I actually, on my Twitter list or on my Twitter page, I have a list of WordPressers. And on that list is a great many folks who are a lot of voices in this stuff. WordPress Core folks like Nick Diego and Rich Tabor, and Carolina Nymark. These people spent a great deal of their time in WordPress, and listening to WordPress conversations, and taking part in the GitHub conversations. So I would check out that list. I can actually send it over to Nathan as well if he wants to include it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:44:43] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that&#8217;d be great. I will in some way copy and paste it into the show notes or somehow link to it. But yeah, that&#8217;s really helpful. Thank you so much.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:44:50] Mike McAlister: Twitter is, love it or hate it. It is where traditionally the WordPress community has hung out, and so it still is the case, even though some people are coming and going. It still is where a lot of conversation happens on WordPress and WordPress development and what&#8217;s new. And so it is a good place even if you just want to read and follow along. It is a good place to see those conversations.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:45:13] Nathan Wrigley: I will link to whatever it is that you send me, Mike. Thank you for that. Okay, just one final question. It&#8217;s more about people finding you really. If somebody&#8217;s listened to this and their interest has been peaked. What are the the best ways, it sounds like it might be Twitter, but it may not be. What are the best ways to get in touch with you, Mike?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:45:32] Mike McAlister: Yeah, I&#8217;m most active on Twitter. Like I said, I think that&#8217;s kind of where our community is still thriving. And so, yeah, I&#8217;m on Twitter largely. My personal account is @mikemcalister. I do a great deal of tweeting about WordPress and design and the intersection of all these different things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then, there&#8217;s a dedicated Twitter account for Ollie as well. You can follow that, that&#8217;s @buildwithollie. I&#8217;m also writing on the Ollie WP blog fairly regularly. So this is another place where I&#8217;m able to share my learnings of all of this stuff with block themes and WordPress in general. And, I&#8217;m writing some long form content, some short tips and tricks and, that&#8217;s all the time I have to hang out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:46:17] Nathan Wrigley: You have other important things to by the sounds of it. Mike, really appreciate you chatting to us today. Thank you so much, and every success with Ollie, whatever direction you take with that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:46:28] Mike McAlister: Thank you so much. I love chatting about this stuff and this was a great form for that, so thank you.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://mikemcalister.com/\">Mike McAlister</a>, and he’s here today to talk about his experiences creating a block-based theme.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike is a veteran product developer and designer in the WordPress space. He&#8217;s founded and sold multiple WordPress products like Array Themes and Atomic Blocks. Now he’s focused on the future of WordPress with his new product brand, Ollie.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike kicks off the podcast by telling us about his WordPress journey, and how WordPress blocks have renewed his passion for the platform.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We get into some history, and talk about the era when WordPress themes were extremely popular. Marketplaces like Envato made it possible to sell themes and create a career in ways hitherto unimagined.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike explains what the key differences are between a block-based theme and a classic theme. How it’s possible to create themes inside the editor, and how you can do this without needing to know much code. We talk about the fact that, if you’re a coding expert, you could always create complex themes, but this fresh approach opens up the possibilities for those with less technical backgrounds. The experience in the editor might not be exactly what everyone wants, but it’s evolving quickly and maturing with every new release of WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The conversation moves onto why Mike is so confident that block-based themes are going to succeed. You don’t need to use one, and your trusty classic theme and the associated Customizer will work for the foreseeable future.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We then turn our attention to the technical hurdles that Mike has had to overcome. What new workflows and tools did he need to adopt and master to make his work possible? Mike’s been really focussed on using WordPress Core Blocks to create his themes, digging into the weeds of what they can do and what their limitations are. It’s been a path of steady learning, punctuated with minor setbacks when the editor and blocks are updated in unexpected ways. Thankfully, these bumps in the road are now relics of the past, as breaking changes have given way to stability.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We then talk about a specific theme that Mike has just released. It’s called Ollie, and it’s the focus of the rest of the podcast. How did Mike build Ollie, and what is he hoping to achieve with this new brand?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Patterns feature heavily in Ollie and we talk about how it’s possible to alter the look and feel of your site quickly. Typography and colours are easy to change with the new suite of design tools which ship with WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you’re wanting to develop block-based themes, or are just curious about how other developers are building them, this podcast is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links.</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://themeforest.net/user/arraythemes\">Array Themes</a> on Themeforest</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://atomicblocks.com/\">Atomic Blocks</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://olliewp.com/\">OllieWP website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://github.com/OllieWP/ollie\">Ollie GitHub repo</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://twitter.com/i/lists/1648871212645318658\">WordPressers Twitter list</a> mentioned by Mike</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://twitter.com/mikemcalister\">Mike&#8217;s Twitter</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 31 May 2023 14:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:30;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:81:\"Do The Woo Community: Let’s Meet or Do a Quick Recording at WCEU 2023 in Athens\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=75259\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:77:\"https://dothewoo.io/lets-meet-or-do-a-quick-recording-at-wceu-2023-in-athens/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:412:\"<p>If you are going to be there, and I know I\'m going to be there, hope we get to see each other. </p>\n<p>&gt;&gt; The post <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io/lets-meet-or-do-a-quick-recording-at-wceu-2023-in-athens/\">Let&#8217;s Meet or Do a Quick Recording at WCEU 2023 in Athens</a> appeared first on <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io\">Do the Woo - a WooCommerce Builder Community</a>	.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 31 May 2023 09:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:31;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"Do The Woo Community: Builder Tips from WordCamp Europe 2023 Speakers\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=75225\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:51:\"https://dothewoo.io/wceu-2023-speaker-builder-tips/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:369:\"<p>We continue our tradition and highlight some of the voices from WordCamp Europe 2023 speakers.</p>\n<p>&gt;&gt; The post <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io/wceu-2023-speaker-builder-tips/\">Builder Tips from WordCamp Europe 2023 Speakers</a> appeared first on <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io\">Do the Woo - a WooCommerce Builder Community</a>	.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 30 May 2023 07:42:20 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:32;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Matt: Power of One\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:22:\"https://ma.tt/?p=85361\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://ma.tt/2023/05/power-of-one/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:671:\"<p>I think part of what <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2003/01/the-blogging-software-dilemma/#comment-445\">Mike Little showed with his comment on my blog</a> that led to the creation of WordPress, is that it&#8217;s not about how many views you have, how many likes, trying to max all your stats&#8230; sometimes a single connection to another human is all that matters. </p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>All it takes is a spark. </em></p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s what is beautiful about blogging. It&#8217;s too bad the advertising and social media platforms got us all caught up in status games for the past 15 years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>All you need is one view, one like, one comment, to change your life.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 29 May 2023 17:23:50 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:33;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:24:\"Donncha: WordPress at 20\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://odd.blog/?p=89589836\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:44:\"https://odd.blog/2023/05/27/wordpress-at-20/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:1813:\"<p>Happy birthday, WordPress!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What does that even mean, though? WordPress is the community of people who have built it and contributed to it over the last <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/05/celebrating-20-years-of-wordpress/\">two decades</a>, and before that, when it was a little known blogging package called b2. So, thank you so much to everyone who has contributed to WordPress over the years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress has given me, and countless others, many opportunities we couldn&#8217;t have dreamed of. Just over two years <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2003/05/wordpress-now-available/\">after WordPress was first released,</a> I joined Automattic. Working on two machines, <a href=\"https://ma.tt/\">Matt</a> and I started work on the first WordPress.com. Here I am, almost 18 years later, and still working on WordPress related software. What a journey. Matt <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2023/05/wp20-audrey-scholars/\">marked the occasion</a> by announcing a generous <a href=\"https://audrey.co/scholars/\">scholarship programme</a>. Matt was also <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2023/05/with-mike-little-and-dries-buytaert/\">on stage in London</a> with Mike Little and Dries Buytaert last week in a conversation I must listen to yet, but I&#8217;ve heard some good things about it WRT Gutenberg.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anyway, it&#8217;s almost midnight here, but I wanted to get some words down on this blogging platform we all love. May we all be here for the next twenty years.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>Oh, and before I go, you can hear me say a few words about meetups at Automattic in the <a href=\"https://distributed.blog/2023/05/26/episode-30-meetups/\">latest episode of the Distributed podcast</a>. It&#8217;s edited well, that&#8217;s all I&#8217;ll say!</p>\n\n\n\n<p></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 27 May 2023 22:56:55 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Donncha\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:34;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"Matt: WP20 &amp; Audrey Scholars\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:22:\"https://ma.tt/?p=85238\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://ma.tt/2023/05/wp20-audrey-scholars/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:1140:\"<p>Today is the 20<sup>th</sup> anniversary of the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2003/05/wordpress-now-available/\">first release of WordPress</a>. None of us knew what we were getting into when it started, but we had a shared conviction that the <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2014/01/four-freedoms/\">four freedoms of the GPL</a> combined with a mission to democratize publishing was something worth spending our time on. There will <a href=\"https://wp20.wordpress.net/\">be celebrations in cities around the world</a>, please join if there&#8217;s one happening near you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Twenty years later, I am proud and humbled by what the community around <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/\">WordPress</a> has created, and jazzed about what we will create in the coming decades.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m also excited to mark this milestone by publicly launching the <a href=\"https://audrey.co/scholars/\">Audrey Scholars program</a>. It is, like all things, an experiment, but I&#8217;m curious to see how it unfolds and perhaps one day an Audrey Scholar could even take the responsibility of leading WordPress, when my capacity to do so has passed.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 27 May 2023 22:10:17 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:35;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"WPTavern: WordPress Turns 20\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=145526\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:39:\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-turns-20\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5804:\"<p><a href=\"https://wp20.wordpress.net/\">WordPress is 20</a> years old today, an estimable milestone for open source software running on the web. Parties are happening all over the world &#8211; in Geneva, Los Angeles, Istanbul, Bangkok, Lahore, Jakarta, Mumbai &#8211; in over 150 different locations.</p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>The software has been downloaded more than 2.8 billion times but the most impressive stat is the project&#8217;s staggering 112,000 contributors, past and present, who have improved and energized WordPress with their passion, talent, and hard work. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>None of the global collaboration we enjoy today would exist without the inspiration and leadership of co-founders Matt Mullenweg and Mike Little. They worked in a distributed way from day one, having never met when they started WordPress. This way of working created the foundation for a global contributor base that now supports <a href=\"https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/cm-wordpress\">43% of the world&#8217;s websites</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">WordPress celebrates 20 years tomorrow. It\'s grown from a comment on a blog post to a web spanning phenomenon. Thanks to an outstanding community and the freedoms of Open Source. Happy Birthday, WordPress! <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/WP20?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#WP20</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordPress?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#WordPress</a> <a href=\"https://t.co/fght4XMJXb\">pic.twitter.com/fght4XMJXb</a></p>&mdash; Mike Little (@mikelittlezed1) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/mikelittlezed1/status/1662013891856027649?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">May 26, 2023</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress has had a profound impact on the lives of millions of users, giving them a voice on the web and the tools to launch businesses, create jobs, and bring ideas to life. The <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/WP20?src=hashtag_click\">#WP20</a> hashtag is replete with stories of how WordPress and its community have given people a place of belonging and launched them into successful endeavors.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">Congratulations WordPress &#8211; 20 already <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f389.png\" alt=\"🎉\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /><br /><br />I discovered WordPress at the lowest point in my life back in 2012 when I was homeless and jobless in the new city. I was desperate to get back to tech but as a college dropout &#8211; there were no jobs for me in IT. <br /><br />From building my first… <a href=\"https://t.co/Um1Sbcl7RQ\">pic.twitter.com/Um1Sbcl7RQ</a></p>&mdash; Rajendra Zore (@rajendrazore) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/rajendrazore/status/1662450273703575553?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">May 27, 2023</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>Does WordPress have 20 more years in its future? Two of the biggest challenges ahead are capturing the hearts of the next generation of builders and maintainers, and preserving the open web where WordPress has thrived. The project&#8217;s 2022 annual survey showed that the respondent demographic is aging. The percentage of respondents under age 40 has decreased every year, as WordPress enters its third decade.  </p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>Ensuring that WordPress remains resilient and relevant to future generations has required some courageous leadership decisions, like introducing the block editor, and may bring some significant shifts down the road, as we enter a <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-contributors-discuss-how-core-can-better-enable-ai-innovation\">new era of AI-powered innovation</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">Happy birthday WordPress…  Our youngest attendee singing it for you. We Love <a href=\"https://twitter.com/WordPress?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@WordPress</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordPress?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#WordPress</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/wp20?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#wp20</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/sajithvmohan?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@sajithvmohan</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/mbigul?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@mbigul</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/Ajay_Aravind?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@Ajay_Aravind</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/ARUN_PK10?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@ARUN_PK10</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/ajith_rn?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@ajith_rn</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/HariShanker?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@HariShanker</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/twittnebu?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@twittnebu</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/sarunrajkm?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@sarunrajkm</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/Hitha_ck?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@Hitha_ck</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/swethabc9?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@swethabc9</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/farhansrambiyan?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@farhansrambiyan</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/GoDaddyPro?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@GoDaddyPro</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/GoDaddy?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@GoDaddy</a> <a href=\"https://t.co/vI1XVIVbyn\">pic.twitter.com/vI1XVIVbyn</a></p>&mdash; WordPress Kozhikode (@wpkozhikode) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/wpkozhikode/status/1662454627416309760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">May 27, 2023</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>Major milestones are are a good time to acknowledge the efforts that made all of this possible. Thank you, dedicated contributors, for lending WordPress a little bit of your fire and a lot of your patience, nurturing, and support. The code under the hood may look very different from the early days in 2003, but WordPress is still that same scrappy, irrepressible force of good on the web that users can count on for years to come.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 27 May 2023 21:19:05 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Sarah Gooding\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:36;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:142:\"Gutenberg Times: Happy 20th Anniversary, Governance of Block Editor, Playground and a new FSE call for testing   #WP20 – Weekend Edition 255\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=24285\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:144:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/happy-20th-anniversary-governance-of-block-editor-playground-and-a-new-fse-call-for-testing-wp20-weekend-edition-255/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23698:\"<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-strong-happy-20th-anniversary-to-word-press-strong\">Happy 20th Anniversary to WordPress! </h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Congratulations to everyone working, teaching, developing, designing, writing, supporting, in short: being part of the WordPress community and the ecosystem. Open-Source is a fascinating idea that has been proven no only successful in certain parts of the world but in all 200 countries where WordPress is used! Millions of lives changed with technology and being able to tell their stories online. It&#8217;s as some Americans would call it, a BFD, a big &#8216;fine&#8217; deal.  It&#8217;s hard to put in words on how blessed I feel as I have had the privilege to earning a living, being involved in the community and now contributing full-time wherever my skills are needed or wanted.  </p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>A real treat is the video <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYhIItlPPOs\"><strong>20 years of WordPress: A conversation with Matt Mullenweg, Mike Little and Dries Buytaert</strong></a> &#8211; The founders of the open-source CMSs, Drupal and WordPress, were for the first time together on stage and had a wonderful conversation about their beginnings of the web, their projects, and the future of building open-source software. </p>\n\n\n\n<p><em><strong><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/wp20-book\">Building Blocks: The Evolution of WordPress</a></strong></em>, a book documenting the second decade of the&nbsp;<strong>WordPress</strong>&nbsp;project, will be&nbsp;released today. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Join the #WP20 the <a href=\"https://wp20.wordpress.net/\">150+ events around the world</a>, <a href=\"https://wp20.wordpress.net/news/\">Things to do</a> and <a href=\"https://wp20.wordpress.net/live/\">tweets </a>online  on <a href=\"https://wp20.wordpress.net/\">wp20.wordpress.net</a>. Incidentally, at WordCamp Europe I will show off my 20-year Anniversary T-Shirt and I added some stickers to my laptop, too. You can get both from the <a href=\"https://mercantile.wordpress.org/product-category/wp20/\">swag store under WP20 category</a>. What is your favorite #WP20 Celebration? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to listen to some community voices who talking about their WordPress experience and history: Follow the <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/tag/anniversary\"><strong>WP Jukebox Mini-series on WP20 Anniversary</strong></a> &#8211; hosted by David Bisset. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>The <strong>WordPress Marketing team</strong> has been giving daily prompts for bloggers, developers, designers, photographers, and contributors in the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/tag/from-blogs-to-blocks/\"><strong>From Blogs to Blocks</strong></a> campaign for the last 20 days. It has been a huge success! So many people participated.  You should make a point of going back and reading the comments from contributors. </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>David Wolfpaw</strong> mentioned the <a href=\"https://davidwolfpaw.com/day-5-wp20-from-blogs-to-blocks/\">Museum of Block Art</a> as his &#8216;<em>most creative use of WordPress that you have ever seen.</em>&#8216; (The Day 5 Prompt of #wp20 From Blogs to Blocks Campaign by the WordPress Marketing team. )</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, this Weekend edition is not all about the 20-year anniversary. The <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2023/05/17/day-10-wp20-from-blogs-to-blocks/\">Day 10 prompt of May 25th</a>, for bloggers: &#8220;<em>What upcoming WordPress projects are you most excited to see happen?</em>&#8221; is a great segue back to the upcoming WordPress 6.3 release.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Three participants shared their thoughts: </p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>&#8220;I am really excited of Media Management. It will be a really cool thing.&#8221; wrote <a href=\"https://chetanprajapati.com/wp-day-10-i-am-excited-for-wordpress-media-management/\"><strong>Chetan Prajapati</strong></a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://davidwolfpaw.com/day-10-wp20-from-blogs-to-blocks/\">David Wolfpaw</a></strong> is excited about the upcoming APIs change (Block API, Fonts API) , PHP8.2 compatibility of Core and the Custom CSS in Theme variations. </li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://dogwonder.co.uk/2023/05/day-10-wordpress-roadmap/\">Rich Holman</a></strong> is eagerly awaiting the Interactivity API  and tells you why</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>What are you excited about when you read through the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/18/roadmap-to-6-3/\">Roadmap 6.3</a> post? Please share in the comments or via email. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And now back to the regular programming! </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Have a wonderful weekend! </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yours, 💕<br /><em>Birgit</em></p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\">\n<p><strong>Table of Contents</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-sortabrilliant-guidepost\"><ul><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#0-strong-happy-20th-anniversary-to-word-press-strong\">Happy 20th Anniversary to WordPress! </a></li><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</a></li><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</a></li><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#3-theme-development-for-full-site-editing-and-blocks\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</a></li><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </a></li></ul></div>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Sarah Gooding</strong> reported on last week&#8217;s <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/gutenberg-15-8-adds-pages-menu-to-site-editor-revisions-ui-to-global-styles\">Gutenberg 15.8 Adds Pages Menu to Site Editor, Revisions UI to Global Styles</a>. </p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\">\n<p><strong>🎙️ </strong> New episode:  <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-83-wordpress-gutenberg-experiments/\">Gutenberg Changelog #83 – WordPress 6.2.1, Gutenberg 15.7, 15.8 and experiments</a> with special guest, Fabian Kägy and host Birgit Pauli-Haack</p>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Anne McCarthy</strong> continues her series of <em>Core Editor Improvements</em> with a post<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/22/core-editor-improvement-smoother-site-editing/\"> </a>about the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/22/core-editor-improvement-smoother-site-editing/\"><strong>Smoother Site Editing</strong></a> experience. The big improvements coming are Revisions and Block Themes previews. She explains the genesis as well as how the new features are supposed to work.  </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jamie Marsland </strong>posted <a href=\"https://www.pootlepress.com/2023/05/its-time-to-get-rid-of-the-wordpress-gutenberg-plugin/\"><strong>It’s Time to Get Rid of the WordPress Gutenberg Plugin</strong></a>. He ruminates that Gutenberg in WordPress and Gutenberg as a plugin confused site owners. Some users don&#8217;t know that the block editor has been part of WordPress since 2018, and and think, they need to install the Gutenberg plugin to get it. Marsland does not want to deprive users to get early access to new features, nor developers to test new features with a smaller feedback loop. If I understand Marsland&#8217;s plea, he feels a Core Beta program might be more suitable than a separate plugin that confuses users and fragments the development. Marsland makes a strong case. Having a faster release cycle for WordPress core, is something the core team has been kicking around, but it doesn&#8217;t seem to materialize. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>The deployment of a major WordPress release is coupled with quite a few manual processes. There are many hands needed for a 2-month release cycle. Just look at the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-2/\">release squad for 6.2</a>. There are around 20 people involved just for the release alone. The total number of contributors was  over 600. Getting that group together for more releases has been a struggle in the years that planned for four releases instead of the three recently. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>In contrast to that, a Gutenberg plugin release every two weeks, is mostly automated and takes about one to three people to put a release together, with 60 to 70 contributors merging PRs for the release milestones. As long as those release processes between WordPress core and Gutenberg plugin are not synced up, keeping new feature development in the Gutenberg plugin seems to be a very WordPress-y solution. </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Anne McCarthy</strong> published the next call for testing: <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/05/18/fse-program-testing-call-23-rapid-revamp/\"><strong>FSE Program Testing Call #23: Rapid Revamp</strong></a>. Following the instructions it will give contributors great insight in the features slated for 6.3 and their feedback will be instrumental to the quality of the user experience of many of the enhancements. If you decide to participate, you are asked to test five newly built features: </p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>Preview Block themes</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Rely on Revisions of Global Styles</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Content and template editing in the Site Editor</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Using the Command tool</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Last week we mentioned <strong>Riad Benguella</strong>&#8216;s post <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/17/command-center-request-for-feedback/\">Command Center: Request for feedback</a>. <strong>Sarah Gooding</strong> picked up the topic again for the WPTavern: <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-is-developing-a-command-center-for-quick-search-and-navigation-inside-the-admin\"><strong>WordPress Is Developing a Command Center for Quick Search and Navigation Inside the Admin</strong></a> and wrote: &#8220;Feedback so far had been generally positive, but contributors on the project will have the challenge of providing real examples of the Command Center’s benefits in order for some to fully realize the vision for this feature as more than just a fancy shortcut for power users.&#8221; The conversation continues in the comments of both posts. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Hostinger&#8217;s head of content, <strong>Emma Young </strong>interviewed <strong>Tammie Lister,</strong> the first Gutenberg design lead, in this video: <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a6iywQvCkg\"><strong>How Gutenberg Empowers Users and Its Future in the WordPress Ecosystem</strong></a>. Lister shared her insights on how Gutenberg evolves through experimentation and brings practical value to its users. The show is the second episode of Hostinger Academy podcast. </p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>314 Block Themes in the WordPress repository</strong> &#8211; My Three picks</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>WPZoom</strong> published <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/foodie-blocks/\"><strong>Foodie Blocks </strong></a>&#8211; a block theme with patterns and style variations for modern Food Blogger, that offers &#8220;flexibility and customization options to showcase your culinary journey&#8221; </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Roman Fink</strong>, new to WordPress.org submitted his first theme even:  <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/papanek/\"><strong>Papanek</strong></a>, a theme for freelancers and agencies. &#8220;Create simple and clear landing pages effortlessly with 54 ready-to-use patterns. &#8220;. The theme as inspired by <em>Victor Papanek</em>, &#8220;an Austrian-born American designer and educator, who became a strong advocate of the socially and ecologically responsible design of products, tools, and community infrastructures. &#8220;(<a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Papanek\">Wikipedia</a>)</p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/papanek/\"><img /></a>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/seedwebs\">Seed Webs</a></strong>, a design studio from Thailand, added their second block theme to the repository: <strong><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/pai-page/\">Pai Page</a></strong> &#8211; a one-page block theme with seven patterns and two style variations. It&#8217;s certainly a great starting point for an image heavy site. Even if you need more than one page, you can always create more templates and use it for pages and posts. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Sarah Gooding</strong> reviewed one theme for the WPTavern: <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/shufflehound-releases-free-lemmony-child-theme-for-agencies\"><strong>Shufflehound Releases Free Lemmony Child Theme for Agencies</strong></a> and also mentions the accompanying plugin with custom blocks: &#8216;The Lemmony Companion plugin, recommended when users install the theme, adds a handful of custom blocks that some of the patterns rely on to work. It includes blocks for a counter, icon, post featured image caption, typing text, hero auto-slider, and accordion.&#8221; she wrote. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>The <strong>Learn.WordPress</strong> team published a few more quick tutorials for WordPress content creators</p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorial/how-to-add-a-blog-or-news-page-to-any-wordpress-website/\">How to add a blog or news page to any WordPress website</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorial/building-a-page-with-only-patterns/\">Building a page with only patterns</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorial/wordpress-editor-modes-for-streamlining-content-creation/\">WordPress editor modes for streamlining content creation</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorial/exploring-category-templates-with-block-themes/\">Exploring category templates with block themes</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Munir Kamal</strong>, at Gutenberg Hub, published a tutorial on <a href=\"https://gutenberghub.com/how-to-create-stacking-sections-in-wordpress/\"><strong>How to create stacking sections in WordPress</strong></a>. Inspired by the new Community theme <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/stacks/\">Stacks</a>, Kamal teaches you how to create a similar stacking effect without changing your theme, using the Group block and some CSS magic in the Advanced CCS settings. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>In his post,&nbsp;<a href=\"https://speckyboy.com/wordpress-paths/\"><strong>WordPress Offers Two Very Different Paths: That’s a Good Thing</strong></a>, <strong>Eric Karkovack</strong> makes the case that just because there are new features coming in with the Site Editor and block themes, the tried and true classic theme is a valid path to build a site. Both paths are available and with the backwards compatibility promise that WordPress core gives, it will stay that way in the future. All the new features do is make WordPress more flexible and if users and site owners use block themes, they can modify and customize their site in ways, that is not possible with classic themes. Karkovack concluded: &#8220;This is what separates WordPress from other platforms. You aren’t stuck with a single way to do things. Sometimes this can create extra layers of complexity. But it’s arguably better than being limited in how or what you can build.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"3-theme-development-for-full-site-editing-and-blocks\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;Did you know that you can customize core block style variations directly from theme.json?&#8221; Asked <strong>Justin Tadlock</strong> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/justintadlock/status/1662127521960165377\">on Twitter.</a> In his latest post on the WordPress Developer Blog,  <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/05/customizing-core-block-style-variations-via-theme-json/\"><strong>Customizing core block style variations via theme.json</strong></a>, Tadlock shows you how, and also points to additional enhancements that are being worked on. </p>\n\n\n\n\n<p><strong>&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2022&#8221;</a>&nbsp;</strong><br />A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test and Meta team from Jan. 2021 on. Updated by yours truly.  <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/\"><em>The index 2020 is here</em></a></p>\n\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Nick Diego </strong>published <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/05/curating-the-editor-experience-with-client-side-filters/\">Curating the Editor experience with client-side filters</a> on the WordPress Developer Blog. He explains: </p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>How to get started <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/05/curating-the-editor-experience-with-client-side-filters/#getting-started-with-client-side-filters\">with client-side filters</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>How to <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/05/curating-the-editor-experience-with-client-side-filters/#restricting-settings-by-block-attributes\">restrict settings by block attributes</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>How to restrict settings<a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/05/curating-the-editor-experience-with-client-side-filters/#restricting-settings-by-user-permissions-and-post-type\"> by user permissions and post type</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>And how to restring <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/05/curating-the-editor-experience-with-client-side-filters/#restricting-settings-based-on-block-context\">settings based on block context</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>The recording of this week&#8217;s Hallway Hangout with the same topic is now available on WordPress.TV. In this information conversation, <strong>Nick Diego</strong> and <strong>Justin Tadlock</strong> talked and demoed the various use cases described in the above post and answered questions from the audience. <a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2023/05/25/hallway-hangout-curating-the-editor-and-building-block-themes-for-clients/\"><strong>Hallway Hangout: Curating the editor and building block themes for&nbsp;clients</strong></a></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><br />In Episode 56: of the WP Briefing, Josepha Haden Chomphosy had two guests on the show: <strong>Rich Tabor</strong> and <strong>Adam Zielinsk</strong>i who discussed <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/05/episode-56-what-to-know-about-wordpress-playground/\"><strong> What to Know About WordPress Playground</strong></a>, its capabilities and promise for WordPress eco system. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>In the latest episode of the WPTavern Jukebox podcast, Nathan Wrigley talked to <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/77-mario-santos-and-luis-herranz-on-what-the-interactivity-api-is-and-how-you-can-use-it\"><strong>Mario Santos and Luis Herranz on what the interactivity API is and how you can use it</strong></a>. The project hopes to absorb complexity and make the creation of interactive objects fairly trivial. Mario and Luis talk about examples of where the API might be used and how it can be implemented.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>The recordings of episodes 6 and 7 of <strong>Ryan Welcher</strong>&#8216;s Series of <em>Bring me your Issues</em> Live streams are now available on YouTube: </p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGqxuQNSBpQ\"><strong>Reviewing Gutenberg 15.6 Features | Bring Me Your Issues #6&nbsp;</strong></a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEXQeaSdIcc\"><strong>Bring Me Your Issues #7! Live stream from May 4, 2023</strong></a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>On Twitch, Ryan Welcher started the series: <strong>Creating a block theme for developers.</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1823056725\">Part 1</a> and <a href=\"https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1828949648\">Part 2</a> are available on Twitch and will soon come to YouTube.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Welcher used the work-in-progress started them, <strong>Justin Tadlock</strong> has been working on. If you&#8217;d like to follow along, the theme is available on GitHub, <a href=\"https://github.com/justintadlock/first-draft\"><strong>First Draft</strong></a> </p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/\">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a></strong><br />Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. <br />Have you been using it? Hit reply and let me know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><img alt=\"GitHub all releases\" src=\"https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/bph/gutenberg/total?style=for-the-badge\" /></p>\n\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right has-small-font-size\"><em>Questions? Suggestions? Ideas? Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">them via email</a> or send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph</em>. </p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right has-small-font-size\">For questions to be answered on the <a href=\"http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast\">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n\n<p>Featured Image: Auto-generated wooden machine by AI via Imajinn plugin </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Don&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? </strong></p>\n\n\n\n<form class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-form ngl-form ngl-portrait\" action=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/\" method=\"post\"><div class=\"ngl-form-container\"><div class=\"ngl-form-field\"><label class=\"ngl-form-label\" for=\"ngl_email\"><br />Type in your Email address to subscribe.</label><div class=\"ngl-form-input\"><input type=\"email\" class=\"ngl-form-input-text\" name=\"ngl_email\" id=\"ngl_email\" /></div></div><button type=\"submit\" class=\"ngl-form-button\">Subscribe</button><p class=\"ngl-form-text\">We hate spam, too and won&#8217;t give your email address to anyone except Mailchimp to send out our Weekend Edition</p></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay\"><div class=\"ngl-message-svg-wrap\"></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay-text\">Thanks for subscribing.</div></div><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_list_id\" id=\"ngl_list_id\" value=\"26f81bd8ae\" /><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_double_optin\" id=\"ngl_double_optin\" value=\"yes\" /></form>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 27 May 2023 12:45:29 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:37;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:47:\"BuddyPress: Happy 20th anniversary to WordPress\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"https://buddypress.org/?p=329739\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:67:\"https://buddypress.org/2023/05/happy-20th-anniversary-to-wordpress/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:712:\"<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center has-text-color\">Happy&#8230;</h2>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<a href=\"https://wp20.wordpress.net/\"><img width=\"873\" height=\"351\" src=\"https://buddypress.org/wp-content/uploads/1/2023/05/happy-20-th-anniversary-wp.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-329740\" /></a></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<p>BuddyPress wishes a great birthday to WordPress, and wishes all local WordPress communities to have great celebrations about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f382.png\" alt=\"🎂\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Have fun! <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f389.png\" alt=\"🎉\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 27 May 2023 09:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:12:\"Mathieu Viet\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:38;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"WordPress.org blog: Celebrating 20 Years of WordPress\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=14981\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/05/celebrating-20-years-of-wordpress/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5411:\"<p>You did it and I think congratulations are in order! You, dear WordPress enthusiast, have helped WordPress thrive for the past 20 years. It’s an incredible accomplishment, and I couldn’t be more thankful.</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p>Did you know: WordPress is thirteen years older than TikTok (<a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TikTok\">2016</a>), came four years before Tumblr (<a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumblr\">2007</a>) and the first iPhone (<a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_(1st_generation)\">2007</a>), beat Facebook to market by about a year (<a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook\">2004</a>), and is about five weeks older than Tesla (<a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.\">July 2003</a>).</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>May 27, 2023, marks exactly 20 years since Matt Mullenweg and Mike Little <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/about/\">forked b2/cafelog</a> to create <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/documentation/wordpress-version/version-0-70/\">WordPress Version 0.70</a>. Quite a bit has taken place in the past 20 years, and imagine how much more we can accomplish together in the next 20!</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p><em>You can read about the first 20 years of WordPress in two parts:</em><br /><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/book/milestones/\">Milestones: The Story of WordPress (2003 &#8211; 2013)</a><br /><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/book/\">Building Blocks: The Evolution of WordPress (2013 &#8211; 2023)</a></p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>Whether you celebrate at one of the <a href=\"https://wp20.wordpress.net\">100+ meetup</a> events, are strutting your stuff in some <a href=\"https://mercantile.wordpress.org/product-category/wp20/\">limited edition WP20 swag</a>, or joining in a collective <a href=\"https://wp20.wordpress.net/live/\">reflection on WordPress</a> in your unique way on social media, WP20 is a celebration of you – the WordPress community.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">A Common Legacy</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>As I scroll through the amazing photos and memories shared on social media of past WordCamps and meetups, I think about the people who got WordPress to where it is today. The thousands of contributors who patched bugs and tested new features; organized events and fostered community; or wrote documentation and translated strings — how those contributions paved the road we travel today. A road that allows more people across the globe to use WordPress and contribute to WordPress, advancing the mission of democratizing publishing and giving us a little more freedom in the world. To the giants on whose shoulders we stand, those unsung, tireless, and passionate committers working through long nights and longer weekends: all of WordPress thanks you!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The dedication to and support of open source software has and will continue to ensure that WordPress endures for another 20 years and beyond.</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p>the freedom to build.<br />the freedom to change.<br />the freedom to share.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>The more our community invests in itself and supports one another, the stronger WordPress and the open source software movement becomes. And WordPress benefits, not just the present community, but future generations of contributors, entrepreneurs, educators, and enterprises large and small alike.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">A Shared Future</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>If the last two decades are any indication of what lies ahead, then wow, the opportunity to innovate, lead, and sustain a versatile publishing platform will be profound!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Looking ahead at the next few years, our community will navigate <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/about/roadmap/\">Gutenberg Phases 3 and 4</a> together, delivering features that bring easy collaboration and multillingual support directly into the software. These next steps for WordPress will ensure our legacy of creating useful, relevant, and reliable software remains strong while keeping in mind the core elements of our mission regarding accessibility, performance, and stability.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>By renewing our emphasis on the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/five-for-the-future/\">Five for the Future</a> program, and continuing to elevate our standing, we can make WordPress the household name it deserves to be. We can be more recognizable in known growth markets such as the enterprise and education sectors, but also every community beyond the open source and developer communities. Opportunity abounds!</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p>When a great ship is in harbor and moored, it is safe, there can be no doubt. But that is not what great ships are built for. </p>\n<cite>Clarissa Pinkola Estes</cite></blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>There is no time like the present to invest in the future of WordPress. The community is the greatest asset within the WordPress ecosystem. This means every WordPress user, from casual bloggers to enterprise extenders, is invited to rediscover all that our community means and does, and how each one of us can further our positive impact.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Through all our planning, both short- and long-term, we can ensure that WordPress never loses sight of its user. Each one of us individually, and together, can do our part to make WordPress better, just as we have done each day for the past <a href=\"https://howlongagogo.com/date/2003/may/27\">7,305 days</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 27 May 2023 05:27:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Josepha\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:39;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:93:\"WPTavern: WordPress and Drupal Co-Founders Discuss Open Source, AI, and the Future of the Web\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=145487\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:102:\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-and-drupal-co-founders-discuss-open-source-ai-and-the-future-of-the-web\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3016:\"<img />\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress is celebrating its 20th anniversary tomorrow and recently its co-founders, Matt Mullenweg and Mike Little, joined Drupal founder Dries Buytaert together on stage at a private event for the first time on May 17. They discussed how their lives were influenced by open source and how they built their projects around the freedoms it guarantees.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Founders of both projects expounded on the benefits of open source collaboration, and Buytaert characterized their continued improvements as an example of the <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_effect\">flywheel effect</a>, accumulating small wins that compound over time. They discussed the early history of WordPress and how something as seemingly insignificant as <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2003/01/the-blogging-software-dilemma/#comment-445\">a comment on a blog</a> can be the first step towards building a better future for the web.</p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>Mullenweg acknowledged that it may not be possible to reach everyone with open source philosophy so &#8220;at the end of the day you have to make the best user experience.&#8221; This has been WordPress&#8217; path over the past 20 years, working in tandem with the power of its open source license and the freedoms that has enabled for the community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;I consider all proprietary software to be an evolutionary dead end,&#8221; Mullenweg said. They discussed how AI is changing the developer experience. Mullenweg is optimistic about AI working with open source and <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-contributors-discuss-how-core-can-better-enable-ai-innovation\">reiterated what he said recently on Post Status&#8217; Slack</a>:</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p>Open source and AI are the two mega trends of the next twenty years, and the reason they are complimentary is that GPT4 hasn&#8217;t read Shopify&#8217;s code. It&#8217;s read Drupal&#8217;s code and WordPress&#8217; code, and all 55,000 plugins and everything else, so it can write it. If you ask it to write a website, it&#8217;s going to write it in an open source thing. It&#8217;s not going to write it in these propriety things.  From an evolutionary point of view, if you go far enough into the future, someday we&#8217;ll see even our proprietary competitors &#8211; the Wix&#8217;s and Squarespace and Shopify&#8217;s of the world, actually running on open source software. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s part of our vision with Gutenberg as well as why we made it an even more permissive license than the GPL. We dual-licensed it under the MPL so it could even be embedded in commercial applications, because I really think it&#8217;s so important that I want it to be in even commercial applications.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYhIItlPPOs\">Check out the video</a> embedded below to hear this historic conversation between some of the pioneers of open source publishing on the web.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 26 May 2023 19:30:05 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Sarah Gooding\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:40;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:41:\"Matt: With Mike Little and Dries Buytaert\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:22:\"https://ma.tt/?p=85035\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:58:\"https://ma.tt/2023/05/with-mike-little-and-dries-buytaert/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:351:\"<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>Last week I had the honor of being on stage at the Royal Society of Arts in London with Mike Little, the co-founder of WordPress, and Dries Buytaert, the founder of Drupal, which is one of the open source projects I have the most respect and admiration for. This is the conversation that ensued.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 26 May 2023 16:53:16 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:41;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:96:\"Do The Woo Community: The Friday Show: Local WordPress Events are the Lifeblood of the Community\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=75214\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://dothewoo.io/local-wordpress-events/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:431:\"<p>Smaller, local WordPress events are critical to keeping the community strong and vibrant. I know that from my latest personal experience.</p>\n<p>&gt;&gt; The post <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io/local-wordpress-events/\">The Friday Show: Local WordPress Events are the Lifeblood of the Community</a> appeared first on <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io\">Do the Woo - a WooCommerce Builder Community</a>	.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 26 May 2023 11:24:56 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:42;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:127:\"WPTavern: WordPress 6.2 Core Performance Analysis Finds Improving Template Loading for Classic Themes Could Make a Major Impact\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=145454\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:138:\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-6-2-core-performance-analysis-finds-improving-template-loading-for-classic-themes-could-make-a-major-impact\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4753:\"<p>WordPress&#8217; Performance Team has published <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/25/wordpress-6-2-server-performance-analysis-summary/\">a summary of a core performance analysis</a> they completed in order to identify and prioritize areas for improvement. As part of this process, contributors created a <a href=\"https://docs.google.com/document/d/1R0dxV0RCeALfD5ZO25w4yuBM4fCzL2VXdqY67ygbl8U/edit?pli=1&resourcekey=0-NXgdwyfTKuuuMVbj-D7tkg#heading=h.vk12eaqoj096\">methodology</a> with a standard set of tools that can be used to collect and share profiling data for various components of the application.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The team tested a classic theme (Twenty Twenty-One) and a block theme (Twenty Twenty-Three) configured with the <a href=\"https://github.com/WPTT/theme-test-data/\">Theme Unit Test data</a>. They tested out of the box functionality, in addition to different scenarios such as a homepage displaying the latest posts, a basic text-only page, a page with a large set of images and default blocks, and a homepage and a basic page with translation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>These tests uncovered numerous performance issues which the team has documented with related trac tickets and detailed in the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/25/wordpress-6-2-server-performance-analysis-summary/\">summary</a> of the findings. The first priority identified for improvement is template loading for classic themes. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Although WordPress contributors are blazing forward on the project&#8217;s roadmap for the block editor, with most of the headline release features focused on site editing, block theme adoption is not where one might expect it to be more than four years after Gutenberg landed in core.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;A majority of websites still use the classic theme architecture, so improvements made here could have the largest horizontal impact,&#8221; 10-up sponsored WordPress Core Committer Joe McGill said in the summary.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>McGill referenced <a href=\"https://github.com/GoogleChromeLabs/wpp-research/pull/53\">data collected in April 2023 for the HTTPArchive</a> which uses a query based on a new HTTP Archive custom metric to detect block theme adoption. Based on this information, improving template loading and rendering for classic themes should remain a high priority. Most of the WordPress-powered web is still running on classic themes.</p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>The summary highlights the improvements for template loading that would make the most impact: </p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p>In the classic theme tested, the most expensive process is related to locating and rendering template parts. This starts with get_template_part(), includes the process of locating the template part files with locate_template(), and rendering the content for each template part. This whole process accounted for approximately 30–60% of the entire server response in the test results, with much of that time spent handling filesystem checks (e.g., file_exists() is responsible for 4–9% of all time measured and can likely be optimized with a cache), rendering widget blocks, etc. Given many of these filesystem checks aren’t likely to produce different outcomes often between requests, there are likely opportunities to find substantial improvements here.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>These improvements are the first of five priorities the Performance Team identified as the result of analysis. The second recommendation is to improve translation loading, as more than <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/about/stats/\">56% of all WordPress websites</a> are using translations.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The other three priorities include improvements for block-powered sites, with the first two ringing up as the most costly operations in terms of performance:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>Improve handling of block registration from metadata</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Improve resolving block templates</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Improve rendering of block widgets</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;These efforts will likely require additional research and architectural design before engineering begins,&#8221; McGill said. &#8220;All other items identified could be worked on directly through individual Trac tickets as capacity allows.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The Performance Team is considering making the tooling for performance profiling more broadly available so other contributors can extend their work. In the future, they may also consider contacting hosting companies to get them to run analysis on their infrastructure and examine additional use cases, such as PHP versions, Object Caching configuration, and more. Once the methodology used for this analysis is nailed down, future efforts to improve performance may become more frequent and  easier to produce.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 26 May 2023 03:57:16 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Sarah Gooding\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:43;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:34:\"Matt: On the Design Better Podcast\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:22:\"https://ma.tt/?p=84862\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:51:\"https://ma.tt/2023/05/on-the-design-better-podcast/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:251:\"<p>I was on the Design Better podcast hosted by Aarron Walter and Eli Woolery, we talked about jazz, generative AI, distributed work, and my journey as an entrepreneur.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div>    <div></div>    </div>\n</div>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 25 May 2023 17:15:18 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:44;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:128:\"WPTavern: WordPress; 20th Anniversary, a Mini Series. Episode 2 With Meher Bala, Robert Windisch, Simon Kraft and Tammie Lister.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=145289\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:141:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/wordpress-20th-anniversary-a-mini-series-episode-2-with-meher-bala-robert-windisch-simon-kraft-and-tammie-lister\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:98247:\"Transcript<div>\n<p>Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, the 20th anniversary of WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Today is a bit of a departure for the podcast. It&#8217;s the second of two episodes all about the last 20 years of WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You&#8217;re going to hear a round table discussion with four WordPressers talking about their thoughts on the last 20 years. It features Meher Bala, Robert Windisch, Simon Kraft Tammie Lister and David Bisset as the discussion moderator.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They cover a lot of ground, and it&#8217;s fascinating to hear their WordPress stories from the past two decades.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading over to WPTavern.com forward slash podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so without further delay, I bring you David Bisset, Meher Bala, Robert Windisch, Simon Kraft and Tammie Lister.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: We have so much to talk about. We have 20 years of WordPress. We gotta condense in the next 60 or so minutes. Um, for those listening or, um, heaven and forbid if we can use AI to clean up my face. We will be putting this on YouTube maybe hopefully soon. Uh, for video perhaps. We&#8217;ll have to figure that out. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I only promise these people audio broadcast, so I have to see if I have to have them sign another contract. My name is David Bisset. Um, I have been talking to people on the 20th anniversary of WordPress, and I&#8217;ve been asking &#8217;em a bunch of different questions, and today we have four more interesting people from the WordPress community and me to talk about some particular th and don&#8217;t worry, the, the, the, the humor gets self-deprecating, but it goes up from there. <br />The next 90 minutes, you know, it&#8217;s gonna be fantastic. I have four people here that are fantastic contr, uh, contributors and representatives of the WordPress community. Um, I&#8217;m gonna let them introduce themselves and then we&#8217;re gonna start getting into some particular areas of WordPress history that I think they&#8217;re gonna love to share some memories, and hopefully you can relate. <br />The first is Mihir. Hello Mihir. How you doing? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: Hey everyone. Hi. Uh, my name is me. I&#8217;m from Mumbai, India. Uh, I&#8217;m a front end developer and a codeable expert. I&#8217;ve been using WordPress since last 10 years. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Oh, good. I thought you were gonna say last week. No. All right. 10 years. Wow. I&#8217;m sorry. Go ahead. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: I don&#8217;t know. <br />I think it&#8217;s more than 10 years because I quit my normal nine to five job, eight, eight years back, so it has to be more than that. Just giving 10 plus years. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: That&#8217;s okay. It&#8217;s okay to round. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: I joined the community quite late because I didn&#8217;t know there was a community existing, especially my local and then the global. <br />So it&#8217;s been fun from the time I joined. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: You&#8217;re not going anywhere, are you? You sound like this is Oh, I&#8217;m fine. I&#8217;m still up on Okay. It sounds like you&#8217;re about to send off here and I don&#8217;t want this to be that type of podcast. All right. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: No, no, definitely no. All right. I&#8217;m here for sure. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Okay, well good. It&#8217;s glad to have you. Thank you very much for, uh, coming. Have we ever met before? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: No, I have not met you. I&#8217;ve seen all your tweets. I love your </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Okay. We can stop there. Alright, we, Robert, Robert, uh, you&#8217;re up next? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: Yeah. I take over before, uh, David like sings in under the screen. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Quickly, quickly, Robert. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: So yeah. My name is Robert. I am, um, uh, c o of Insight at WordPress agency. I&#8217;m in WordPress since 1.52. So for me it&#8217;s very e very easy. I&#8217;m so old. I can name the release I came in, which was in 2005. Um, and, and people go like, no, you were older. No, no, no, no, no. I&#8217;m a late bloomer. Like, I came in like two years already when everybody, when the, the server were already set up, the, the forums was there and I just came in, swooped up and was like, Hey, is can I help with developer stuff? And they got, and the community, German community was like, you can develop here a server admin access. So I just, uh, um, grab a hammer and then like cleaning pipes in the WordPress server community. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: All right. Well, good, good to have you on board, Robert. All right, Tammie. Hello. Tell us a little bit about yourself. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: Yeah. So I am Tammie. Uh, I&#8217;ve. Uh, I had to check how long, which was quite a thing apparently. Um, according to my profile, 2006. Mm-hmm. Uh, I think I, I came because I was torturing a cms, like everybody back in the day, and someone showed me that there was a better way with WordPress. <br />Um, I think I might have been a bit before that because I was kind of doing it. Um, so that was on wordpress.org and themes brought me to WordPress. So, and since then I&#8217;ve been, uh, doing various core contributions. Um, and that&#8217;s me. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Yeah. Well, well, if anybody&#8217;s been word WordPress, any measure of time, I have seen you in some way, shape, or form. <br />Ah, Simon, bring it home. Hi. Bring it home. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: Yeah. Hi, I&#8217;m Simon. I started using WordPress in 2008, exactly 15 years ago. Um, I started with like, Easy front end development stuff. Worked my way a bit to the back end and at some point graduated from developing stuff myself. And now I am a product owner at Group One.  Um, and I spent like the last 10 years organizing meetups and, and wood camps and stuff like that. So I really love that part of our community. Um, and I&#8217;m looking forward to at least the next 10 years of that. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Oh good. You, you&#8217;re okay. Well exercise and eat, eat a good diet and we&#8217;ll see. Uh, well thank you all and again, I&#8217;m David, if you&#8217;ve probably already know.  Um, I work, uh, I&#8217;m employed at Awesome Automotive. I run a project called WP r WP Charitable or Charitables, the products for non-for-profit organizations. It&#8217;s been a recently acquired and I&#8217;m a project manager there. I&#8217;ve been, uh, I&#8217;ve experienced with, uh, work camps. I&#8217;ve been. With Word Camp Miami started in 2008, and I think I was around and since, um, WordPress 1.5, whenever that was.  Um, that came out with, with I think, uh, themes and pages and that sort of thing. So I&#8217;ve been with, with WordPress for a while. This is not gonna be about me today. This is because I&#8217;ve talked enough in the past episodes, um, of that. So I want, I want to feel, um, we&#8217;re gonna go around. We&#8217;re gonna, I&#8217;m gonna, I&#8217;m gonna get your picks in terms of the categories we&#8217;ve selected, but this is an open conversation.  So as soon as the, the initial person gets their, gets their words out of their mouth, you&#8217;re feel free to have a discussion and I&#8217;ll, uh, I&#8217;ll poke up accordingly. So, Mihir, um, Let&#8217;s start with you. Uh, let&#8217;s talk about, one of the things that we wanted to, wanted to talk, and this is gonna be a little bit different than if you&#8217;re, if you&#8217;re listening right now, you&#8217;ve listened to the others.  These are slightly different topics and categories I wanted to touch on here, cuz these, cuz I wanted to get some, there&#8217;s so much to cover for WordPress&#8217;s. 20th, 20th anniversary in 20 years. There&#8217;s so much to cover. So I wanted to make sure we, we, on some of the shows and some of the people I talked to, we, we kind of varied our discussion points. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So first thing we wanted to cover was a memorable design or refresh in WordPress history. Now, some people ask me, well, does this mean this? And does this mean that, um, does this mean project or does this mean that I, when I ask these questions, they&#8217;re open for interpretation. So I am not looking, I am looking for something within a scope.  But wherever you read that question, you can go from there. So what Mihir, what was your. Memorable design or refresh and WordPress history? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: Uh, my memorable was 1.3. Uh, one was having a multisite built in the co. Mm-hmm. And one was a 20, uh, 10th heme, which was most stylish, more simple and very readable to normal users who, you know, what, just wanna run the WordPress as a blog because blogging had just begun and everyone was using WordPress. So for me it was, 3.0. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Yeah. Uh, I was a big multi-site fan back in the day, and I remember he had to download two versions of WordPress. Yes. Uh, and that was, and that&#8217;s, but that was, um, and see that was the, what was the theme again? What was the year 2010? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: 2010 was it? Uh, 2010 was a theme. The year was, uh, 2010. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Right. That makes sense. I was trying to, I was trying to pull up what it looked like, cuz I&#8217;m drawing a blank. Remember we were talking about, um, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: it&#8217;s the white banner on top. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Oh, there it is. Yeah. I remem Oh yes. Oh my goodness. Yes. That was with the trees in the road. Yes. Is the default picture. Yeah. And it&#8217;s kind of hard to describe audibly, but if you just do WordPress 10,000 theme in Google images, you get all the clones appearing and there is some, there was a little bit of styling there, but it was mostly what blogs, what the typical stylish, simple blogs were back then.  It was like a large hero image or a large full width image. And then you had your two columns, right? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: Yes. It was something new for a lot of people. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Well before that, not too much before that. I don&#8217;t know if there was another word. I, I forget when WordPress year theme started, was this the first one? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: That was the first default theme? That was the first, that was second one. No, that was the first official default theme. Mr. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: Well, there was Kubrick before that. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: No, I see. Dang. I lost a bet. Years. Yeah, because yeah, I was, I, I should have said that&#8217;s the first default theme that was named after years because we had Kubrick for like four or five years before that.  Oh yeah. So this is kind of memorable because this </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: is the first default, the one that started the default years <br />David Bisset: because we got so sick and tired of looking at that, uh, Corick theme. No, I mean, it was nice and pretty, but I mean, it&#8217;s like my kids, I can only look at &#8217;em so much before I need something new, new, new to glance at. <br />So, but yeah, it was perfect. But, alright, so I think that&#8217;s pretty memorable. Nice. Round number 3.0, multi-site, no more Kubrick, first year theme. I agree. That&#8217;s a pretty good design moment in WordPress history. Um, let&#8217;s, uh, so Robert, what&#8217;s your, yeah, what&#8217;s your, what&#8217;s your big, uh, design moment that you wanna share? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: So, so first, Mihir taking multisite from me, like, uh, we have a conversation next, next word camp like, and from me by the way. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: So is that your, was that gonna be your pick? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: No. Yeah. Uh, I&#8217;m the multi side person. Yes. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Oh. Oh, see, we already have our first </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: right after three, so. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, that&#8217;s totally, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s, you, you are the first one. Um, and I am, I shying away from other things because I want, I know Tammie wants to, wants to mention that that one thing that end ends with a number, probably this, the design refreshed, but like, I, I give Tammie the, um, the, oh, no. Okay. I can take it. I can take it. Okay. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: See, you try to, you try to be a nice human being. Well, well, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because like, I, I&#8217;m the second one, so, um, but I have, like, you are welcome to that one. Yeah. But that&#8217;s my, would be my second pick. So, um, so I would, with the, with the biggest like, design, uh, um, like seismic shift from like, uh, from, from the, from the feeling was when the, when the menu went from the top to the left. Like that. That was like that. I have no idea when this was. Like, I&#8217;m very bad. Right? Like it was eight ago. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Menu went from the top. You mean the admin making </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: the WordPress menu was in the top third </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: one? Yes, it was. Cuz I remember in one five it was, but I, I can&#8217;t, I can&#8217;t remember now. You&#8217;re gonna have to make me look things up. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: I, I would guess, but I&#8217;ve, I&#8217;ve, I&#8217;m bad with like, because it&#8217;s, so we&#8217;re currently talking about like between like which dinosaur were alive when this happens. So that&#8217;s why it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s so, it&#8217;s so far off. And I will simply say like, uh, the biggest, like design wise for the future, for the user interface was really when the, when the top menu, which was not like, it could not scale because you had, uh, determined like link in the menu. We experienced that in the WordPress org menu also that we have a problem with, with link there. So, so that was for me, like a, a, a big, um, like design visible decision that, um, was, was made and then, Like, it&#8217;s now the current, the current way of the WordPress backend. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Okay. For now, I&#8217;ll, we&#8217;ll, I&#8217;ll, I&#8217;ll guess that it was around 2.0 cuz I remember it being in one five and it was pretty, and I started using one five, but very quickly after I started using it. Like, I don&#8217;t remember the top stuff match for very long, so I mean, I&#8217;ll be, I&#8217;ll be Googling to fill that in, but, okay. Well, we&#8217;re gonna, we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re gonna put 2.0 as a placeholder, but That&#8217;s right. It&#8217;s, and just fortunately, I mean, we think the sidebar is a bit of a mess today. Although the stuff that we had, just imagine if it was a top-down navigation menu in the admin. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: Yeah. All the, all the, uh, like upsell things now in the top menu bar, that would be like, lovely. What would it be? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Why, how would that work? You, we all the plugin authors have to add like a second navigation, second dropdown. It&#8217;s like a mega menu. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: We just, we&#8217;ll just like break and add another line, and you have a huge block on top of every Diamond page. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Tammie&#8217;s miming all of the facial expressions as we&#8217;re talking here. That&#8217;s fine. All right, okay, well, Tammie, now it&#8217;s your turn. Robert, I&#8217;m gonna get back to you on a version number on that exactly, because </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: I think version number&#8217;s, uh, 2014. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Okay. That&#8217;s a year. That&#8217;s close. That we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re getting closer now. So 2014 is the next clue. 2014, the menu came inside. So that&#8217;s four years after the 2010 theme. I know I can do math, but I mean, that would mean it would be greater than WordPress. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: No, no, no, no. The the menu, the, the, the, the, it was was already decide when the, when the other thing that I want to mention later, uh, um, come, come. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: No, don&#8217;t ruin it. Don&#8217;t worry, don&#8217;t worry. We&#8217;ll figure it out. All I know is that I was. Yeah, all I know is that, um, there&#8217;s probably dirt younger than the version number that we&#8217;re gonna find, but anyway. All right, Tammie, time, time to go from miming to audio and sharing your, uh, the biggest or most memorable design moment. And this should be right up your alley </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: 2005 and it&#8217;s Kubrick. And the reason is, if you speak to most people that got their visuals or, or some front end work in WebPress, uh, have been around for a while, they got their start because of Kubrick. That was one of the themes that got them into it. Or they started tinkering around with themes. Um, it was one of those themes that you like cut your teeth on, you learnt with, so that, I know we were kinda saying it was around for a while, but honestly it&#8217;s what. Most of us learn how to theme from. So for me, I think it&#8217;s the most memorable design. Um, mainly for cuz of the gradient. If you think of Kubrick, you see the gradient. So that&#8217;s the one for me. It&#8217;s gotta be Kubrick. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Well, for me personally, I may have mentioned this on another episode, um, but Kubrick wasn&#8217;t just another design or even a design that stayed for a long time. It was when WordPress was really starting to get popular for blogs. Yeah. And I think visually speaking, at least for me, that whenever you ha if you wanna get a couple of screenshots or photos or memories Yeah. Of just how, when blogging got popular, Um, yeah. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: Would, and I set the tone. Yeah. So many people just were never color gradient or had that big header and that header format stayed for a very long time. The big headers. We&#8217;ve only just very recently stopped having big headers in our designs and kind of started moving away from the big header design and realizing you don&#8217;t have to have that in every design, so, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: well, you know, what they say about big headers. <br />What&#8217;s that? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: Um, for, for me, I feel that you, you can&#8217;t really include this list without saying that because it feels quite seminal to Yeah. What you learn and at the front end, the code level, because we really learn how to create themes from it as well. Oh yeah. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Iconic. Iconic, very good choice. So, yeah, we&#8217;ve had, um, WordPress 3.0, our mystery WordPress 2.0 theme that we&#8217;re gonna go to do, and, uh, Kubrick 2005. So, uh, Simon, what I, can you share with us what your memorable, uh, design. Moment is in our WordPress history. So far we&#8217;ve, we&#8217;ve, and I&#8217;m, so far, I&#8217;m glad we have stayed in the past, but are you gonna, are you gonna be there with us, Simon, or are you edging a little closer to the future? Like pick something from the future? Um, no, I mean, I meant far past. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: Yeah. Okay. I, I think mine is not that, that long ago. Well, it should be like 10 years. Um, Robert already, um, alluded to it. Um, I pick MP six, the, the redesign of the word presentment interface. Um, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: see, you hear that Si Simon. That means I can Google it and get a year versus Roberts description </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: it should be what? Press 3.8. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Well, I&#8217;m not gonna fact check- </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: just keep in mind the new redesign of the interface. <br />Simon Kraft: Yeah, yeah. It, it&#8217;s just 10 years old. That&#8217;s, that&#8217;s still good. Um, and that was was a point where I really started. Loving the way the WordPress back end looks, because before that it was, it was cool, it was nice, it was usable. <br />Uh, but with that, it felt like really fresh and still to a certain degree does, uh, today. And I think there were a couple of smaller, um, redesigns, I think WordPress 5.7 at the standardization of, of colors or something it was called, where we had a bit more contrast, a bit more unified set of colors, which is also very nice. I came to really love that. But that&#8217;s the interface on the web that I interact with, like every single day of every year, ever since. Uh, so that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s quite cool. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: I, it looks like, to me, the, I mean, I think this plugin was around a while before it actually officially came out in the WordPress police, because I&#8217;m finding posts from 2013. Um, and do you remember why it was called MP six? I mean, must stand for something </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: Tammie doesn&#8217;t know. Nobody knows here. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Yeah. I&#8217;m looking at, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: I think it was a project name. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: It had to be Matt, think it was, it had to be probably Matt or who, or I forget the original designer or the original project creator cuz I&#8217;m, cuz this was nine years ago. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: It was a group, group of people who created it and got together. <br />It was one of the first projects where a group of people got together and created it and kind of worked on it. Um, it was kind of the first attempt at that, um, to get kind of designed, done collectively, I guess. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Yeah. Was that the first, what do you call them? Um, project plug-ins. No, that&#8217;s not the right word. Um, feature. I&#8217;m not even sure. Feature plug-ins turns back then. Yeah. Cuz this, would this been considered plugins or anything? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the term didn&#8217;t exist, but it was, I think it was probably one of the first quote unquote feature plugins. Right. Yeah, I mean without that we&#8217;d still be looking at the uh, um, now if I can find a screenshot between Robert&#8217;s Pick and Simon&#8217;s Pick for the WordPress admin where the, it was side navigation, but it&#8217;s still an before MP six. Man, I can&#8217;t remember it. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: People, people will not, people will not like if you show them MP six, it looks very like the current, um, interface. So that&#8217;s why, um, oh yeah, we don&#8217;t change anything. Just need to like the pre, the pre MP six phase, because that was the new redesign, as I always, I cannot, I cannot emphasize nothing. That was how new this was for, this was for the WordPress people, and we are like, finally someone is investing in the WordPress Pega interface. So that was really like a, a, a jump in in, in, um, in user, in, in, um, user interface, um, and, and usability of WordPress. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: It had a bunch of new dash icons, remember, da remember Dash icons. Um mm-hmm. For those of us who know what those are a redesigned widgets page by Sean Andrews from his Widgets project. If, uh, P six included that. Wow. I didn&#8217;t, I totally forgot about the widgets project. Improvements to the customizer color schemes. Is this, is this when we got our color schemes like Ectoplasm or some, I wonder if that&#8217;s Yep. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie&#8217;s shaking her head vigorously guess. And a new midnight color scheme. So that&#8217;s, thank you, Debbie. Thank you Sarah from 2013 for helping us remind that. Well, that sounds fantastic. So we have stayed. We have stayed pretty, pretty well pre 2015 pre Gutenberg. That&#8217;s a i I applaud you all for the biggest, most memorable design moments, not being part of, uh, anywhere beyond the 5.0 release of WordPress. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Thank you. So just to, just to rehash here, Mihir, uh, WordPress, uh, 3.0 multi-site and the first year themed theme. Um, yes, Robert, uh, we&#8217;re still gonna hunt for a version specific for that, I assure you. But when the, but we&#8217;re talking about when the big jump made from moving navigation from the top to the left hand side. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Uh, we&#8217;re gonna guess that&#8217;s 2.0 WordPress for now. Kubrick, who could forget Kubrick? We didn&#8217;t. Tammie thought that was, and that probably one of the most fundamental images and thumbnails representing the blog when blog blogs went. We&#8217;re in its heyday when movable type was, was starting to fade and WordPress jumped on the scene, how iconic. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then MP six, Simon picked that. And that of course is just, you know, we still have that with us today. And that&#8217;s been, it&#8217;s been, been probably, it&#8217;ll probably around 10 years. So, Fantastic. Well, uh, from design-wise, I really don&#8217;t have much to, to say in this department. Um, I, I think we&#8217;re, I think the early version of WordPress that introduced pages was great, but that&#8217;s not really much of a design feature. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s just, I think it did open it up for a little bit more design. Um, I, if I had to pick something, I, I don&#8217;t know if this would be my most memorable, but I use it every day. It is the redesign of the WordPress site, um, wordpress.org. Um, a lot of people don&#8217;t remember how that looked way, way, way, way back then. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, with, and then it was all split out into various groups, uh, various categories as we have them today, you know, core and design and plugins and, and all of that. Um, I don&#8217;t know, maybe I&#8217;m, maybe this is an old person talking, but it was really, really clunky and really plain back in the early days. And now with the learn.wordpress.org and the redesign stuff&#8217;s, it&#8217;s happening. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s looking so much more professional and grown up maybe is the, is the best word I can describe it in. But anyway, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s just me. And maybe for, I will share some, if I can find some old screenshots of that, which I couldn&#8217;t initially, um, I would love to, love to share them with you. So let&#8217;s move on to our next category. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mihir, you are up again. So we are talking about the most notable enhancement to WordPress core that isn&#8217;t Gutenberg related. So I definitely, so I definitely put that. That, that qualifier in there, because I think that would be way too easy. Um, we in way too broad. Um, and when I say most notable enhancement to WordPress core, that means this is, um, it, it had to appear in WordPress core at some point. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maybe it&#8217;s something that&#8217;s not there anymore or maybe something that it was acquired or merged into WordPress core. Didn&#8217;t have to start there, but it was something, a most notable enhancement to WordPress core. And I had some people say, well, what do you mean by enhancement? Do you mean coding wise or design wise? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Again, this is up to your interpretation. As long as you don&#8217;t say the G word, we will be Okay. Mihir. So go ahead. What is your most notable enhancement to WordPress Core? We had no guten, guten free. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: Mine is the events, uh, widget on a dashboard. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: I&#8217;m sorry, say that again. My, my ears exploded. What was that? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: The event widget. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Oh, the event widget, yes. Ooh. This is why I like talking to people that are above the age of 18, cuz that&#8217;s all I have in my house for, for like a week, every week. The events widget. Oh, tell us, tell us a little bit about that in case people have have forgotten about that. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: So, uh, whenever there&#8217;s any, uh, meetup happening or WordPress happening, uh, in your locality, the events are displayed there. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And in our local, what I noticed is once the widget came out, a lot of new people who didn&#8217;t know the community started, you know, attending meetups, started interacting with the community. So we had a few different people at every meetup. So that&#8217;s something which is memor, which is. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: That for me is an amazing pick. I never would&#8217;ve thought of that. And apparently you did. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: I see the community grow even with that. So for me, that&#8217;s still in the mind more than Gooden book. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: That&#8217;s amazing because not only does it serve, did it serve a purp? I I, I can&#8217;t remember if this is when people realize meetup.com was crap. I can&#8217;t remember exactly when. Uh, sorry. Meet, sorry, or sorry to our sponsor meetup.com by the way. Um, I love you. Uh, so mom, uh, who works there? So, meetup.com was probably the only way WordPress people were fighting each other at the time. I do you have a, do you know when that, I guess we&#8217;re gonna have to find out when that came about cuz I have no idea. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: That was WordPress 4.8. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: And do you have a year for that? No. Oh, well, now that we know a version number, hello. Welcome to a podcast, but we&#8217;re doing our research live on the air. Thank you. 2017. 2017 or something like that. <br />Robert Windisch: Welcome. Welcome to a normal community conversation, by the way, we don&#8217;t, we don&#8217;t run around and no version numbers and years. <br />We just go like, do you remember this feature? Oh my God. That&#8217;s it. <br />David Bisset: You get what you pay for the hallway track. People are getting what they </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: for when someone get, gets their phone out and starts tapping and then finds it, and then you go, oh yes, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: someone&#8217;s rolling their eyes right now and starting a letter. <br />Dear David, oh, well </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: I can&#8217;t believe they didn&#8217;t know that. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: David Professional in quotes, uh, we have that before that 2017. The reason why I was wanting a year is because that is before I think Slack and where Press Slack, I believe. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: No, no, no. Slack was, slack was uh, in civil already. Slack was there. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: So, yeah. Okay, so. I don&#8217;t wanna pinpoint it, I guess. Yeah. Cuz 20, I remember a community summit when they made the announcement, but 20, that could have been as early as 2015. So if that widget came out in 2017, there was still ways. I guess the two top ways you would know about WordPress community would be meetup.com was still probably the biggest way there. <br />And then maybe if you were on WordPress Slack at the time. Right. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: Yeah, but meetup media.com was the, we, we, so we decided on media.com because I remember the conversation we had internally be, Hey, let&#8217;s build this. And like, people who know project management was, was like, um, you know, that we want to do democratizing publishing, not democratizing events here. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, so that&#8217;s why luckily we decided to simply give meetup.com money and let they run all of this. And we simply like hooked the meet, hooked the Meetup API into their system and was simply like, um, doing, let them do all the work. <br />David Bisset: Oh, I was talking, when I talk about meetup.com, I talk about the interface on meetup.com because my experience with it was, I was running meetups through meetup.com and creating the meetups, um, even searching for meetups, and I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m sure it got better over time. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think Amaz, coincidentally enough, is when Weber, when there was that single. Page for the WordPress meetups. Like you said, they, I think there was some, some deal with the, uh, with, um, with, I don&#8217;t know. I would, I&#8217;m gonna guess WordPress Foundation on this was, was involved or something, but before a while you would just have random spots of communities on meetup.org. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Which org, which was hard to find. That&#8217;s the experience I remember cuz I was running one of those meetups, or two of them actually for a while. And then there came a time where everything was under one umbrella. Organizational wise, I think it had a dedicated page and probably, I&#8217;m guessing at that time is where the widget would probably start pulling that kind of information. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right. Cuz it&#8217;s all centralized Meetup. It&#8217;s probably, it&#8217;s probably, um, like a meetup organization or something like that. So apologies for me getting it a little confused. I think it did get better, but I, I remember once we had that widget, I pointed people toward the widget and we would have meetups where I said, how many people found us through the widget and we always had one or</p>\n\n\n\n<p>two people at our meetups raise their hand. So I think that&#8217;s an amazing pick. Does any, did, doesn&#8217;t, does any, I I&#8217;m seeing a few people nod. So is that your experience as well, Simon? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: Yeah. I think our meetup in, in Germany, multiple meetups in Germany, like grew tenfold or something in the year following the, the, this update with 4.8. So that&#8217;s really huge for the meetup community. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Yeah. So not only do we get a nice new widget on the dashboard, which doesn&#8217;t come by that often, but it had an impact on the community. So I think that&#8217;s a really cool pick. Really appreciate you take us down me memory lane and my apologies to meetup.com. Um, Robert. I believe you&#8217;re up next. Um, so again, just in case, uh, people have nodded off here listening to us </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: totally like, yeah, totally fine. I can bring up something that is nothing with five. Oh, that is a feature that influenced many people and that, uh, everybody goes like, yeah, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: just I said Guttenberg related. Now if there&#8217;s anything else in five that wasn&#8217;t, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: no. Not even close. No, no. I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m still, I&#8217;m still in a very old feature. I&#8217;m still in three, 3.0. I&#8217;m talking about, menus. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Menus. Oh, you mean like creating menus? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: Before that you needed to have pages and pages needed to have redirect because you needed to get some structure. And then the only thing to have a high, high cultural, uh, a structure where you have like a parents and chil uh, children was with pages. And that was like when people like fumbled their menu structure together with external links. And then you had a drag and drop in the WordPress back and with menus. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: You. Wow. That act. Wow. I can&#8217;t remember that o That was wor that was 3.0. Yeah. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: Wow. That was merged from Wu. Seems the WCI feature of menus were merged in the WordPress core </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: wow. That&#8217;s so hard to believe. Looking back on that now, 3.0, not so, not only P 3.0 had multi-site and, and, and the new theme it had, it had the menu stuff too. That&#8217;s amazing that, that would&#8217;ve been so barbaric. It&#8217;s probably the reason why my webs </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: no difference with me. No promise with me with features and breakfast. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Uh, that&#8217;s so barbaric. It&#8217;s like, for a long time it&#8217;s like, why do all these WordPress sites don&#8217;t have barely have any menus on &#8217;em until this date? Co. I remember Cooper, I don&#8217;t, I might explain why my early Cooper Gays, I don&#8217;t see many, I don&#8217;t see many menus. They were on the, they were on the sidebar. A lot of the links for websites. Yeah, I re I don&#8217;t know, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: it was all a widget or, or kind of lists </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: and No, that the link, the link, the link feature where you could have like defined what&#8217;s, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: that&#8217;s what it was. Cause that&#8217;s all we had. You didn&#8217;t have anything else. And then when you had early menus, you had to do those walker things. The, you only knew a few knew special magic words and more wizard. That was because it was really, really difficult. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Oh wow. Okay. Well, yeah, definitely notable enhancement menus. Where could we be without menus? It&#8217;s like a, it&#8217;s like a car without, I dunno, a steering wheel or something. All right, Tammie. Uh, notable enhancement to WordPress core and no good. Yeah. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: I think I&#8217;m back at 3.0, but I want that checked custom post types is where I&#8217;m going. Uh, I feel like we&#8217;re just settling on that release, but it&#8217;s one of those releases where we just kind of, it feels like it grew up or we got the features, which then meant the, not just people could write logs or, or use, you could then pivot and grow and extend. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s really what that release felt about. And custom post types, if you think about everyone that&#8217;s made a product or everyone that&#8217;s used in an agency or anyone&#8217;s done anything with WordPress, they wouldn&#8217;t have probably done that if it hadn&#8217;t been for a custom post type. So it kind of was there, or, or at least that concept. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, and even Emberg has the, the G word, I&#8217;m sorry, but that has the roots in that kind of thinking. So yeah, custom post types is the thing for me. That&#8217;s, it&#8217;s, <br />David Bisset: that&#8217;s, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s. It&#8217;s really what started to make WordPress more than a blog. Like everybody&#8217;s, yeah. But then </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: you could, like ex you could make it yours and you could take it your your direction and you could build on top of it. You know, we now think about like headless and doing everything you want and all that. That would not been impossible if we hadn&#8217;t started thinking about custom post types, which now sounds really like simple. Right? Um, but it&#8217;s not that back then that was radical thinking. Yes. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: So yeah, you could start making. And history would rather us not learn this lesson too deeply. But I mean, you, you could make a like WordPress into any sort of application you wanted to. Yeah. Yeah. Not that you should, but I mean, you could. Right. And there was, and there was already custom post types. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: It wasn&#8217;t just these pages with, with Kubrick, but it was just this flat file. You, you, I mean, as we&#8217;ve just heard, you had navigation and, and then you had these different things. You had so much in 3.0. 3.0 was basically like Christmas. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Yeah. I mean, how much brain matter had this. How much brain matter was scraped off the floor at the Word camp announcement for 3.0. You know, it&#8217;s like our minds were blown so much. Just stop it. Yeah, stop it. It&#8217;s all, it&#8217;s already dead. Uh, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: yeah, but if you think back then about the upgrade paths of 3.0 as well, cuz back then it was very different as well. Let&#8217;s say we don&#8217;t have releases that are that significant now because so many things happen then it&#8217;s kind of mind blowing. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Yes. It&#8217;s like you, you went out, you went to, you went to, you went to the customer saying, let&#8217;s upgrade you where this is the customer. No. Really? No. Yeah. Let&#8217;s, let&#8217;s do it. Let&#8217;s do it. Let&#8217;s, let&#8217;s go nuts. Just cup take. All right, Batman. So, all right Simon. So we&#8217;ve got an events widget, we&#8217;ve got menus, we&#8217;ve got custom post types. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Uh, I don&#8217;t wanna put any pressure on you here, but, um, do you have something he&#8217;s gonna say entering text into a box? For the win, Alex, <br />Simon Kraft: and that, that was exactly what I was going for. Now, actually, in the first round, all my picks and the backups and their backups were picked by everyone else. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: But this time I, I said to come, I said To come with a sat. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: Yeah, yeah. And, but this time, every single one of my, of my picks is still in the race. And that makes it a bit hard. And I&#8217;m going for the, I think most insignificant one of them, because it&#8217;s no longer in core. And that&#8217;s something we don&#8217;t do that often. Oh, no. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Um, oh, no, I think I know what it is. It&#8217;s post formats. Yes. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: Um, I, I really loved that feature back in the day. Uh, as I said, I was </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: te Tell us a little bit about post formats, Simon. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: Yeah. I, I, I was, I was building a lot of themes back then and post formats basically had the idea that you cannot only post a post. So not just a blob of text, but also. Oh, I have lists somewhere here so I don&#8217;t have to bumble around like an idiot. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, something that was called a site, like a, a small kind of update kind of post. You had a galleries, links, uh, images, quotes, a status while reading that. I&#8217;m not so sure how that compares to a site. Um, video, audio and chat. And they&#8217;re gone now. They were introduced in 3.1. Um, but they were like, that was a really fun way of, of styling different kinds of content in blocks. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: I remember Matt talking about it on stage, by the way, and I mean, I&#8217;m that old. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: I&#8217;m so happy that they are gone. I&#8217;m so happy that they, I&#8217;m not, I&#8217;m not at all. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Robert. Robert, Robert. They&#8217;re some confusing for people. Robert, we, we&#8217;ll get to, we&#8217;ll get to your negative emotions, but let&#8217;s, I&#8217;ll, I&#8217;m sorry Simon, I interrupted. Go ahead. You were telling us about this wonderful feature. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: It was so wonderful and at some point, I&#8217;m not sure when. It was removed from Core. I think there&#8217;s still a way around that. You can still technically use it in some capacity, but it&#8217;s not an ongoing core. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: I mean, still you can also use a block now you could use a block and, and have it as a, that&#8217;s not the same. Yeah. I mean, no, you could sign it. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Well, it was introduced in 3.1, it says here. So it almost made like we were writing an, we were writing high back then as a WordPress. People we&#8217;re like, oh man, 3.0 is so awesome. What&#8217;s next? What&#8217;s next? Oh, this post format stuff. Oh man, we gotta do this. And then, and then crickets. Why, why do you all think that post formats didn&#8217;t make it? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: I think, uh, blogging is not that relevant anymore. Yeah. <br />Tammie Lister: Unfortunately. So I think that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s one of the things is like, It&#8217;s very in the blogging sphere, I think it works just for blogging or not for a particular type of blogging even. Mm-hmm. Um, and there was a, you know, if you think about, what was it? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Timelines, it was a big thing back then. I went kind of wanna bring them back, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, and like listening to, and I&#8217;m doing and status updates. It was kind of in a time before we used social media as well, so people were using their blog to post and syndicate everything on there. And people just started doing that in other places rather than their blog. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Not saying they&#8217;re not gonna come back with, uh, the world as it is and owning your own content. But I think that because it was very particular, and then WordPress was starting to become about more broad in its terms. I think that&#8217;s the thing when we moved to plugins being about particular things rather than the interface. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: Yeah, I just want to pick on my like, negative thing that I said I, I just wanted, like in terms of the user, for the user, it was very complicated to like decide while writing. And, uh, if we are emphasizing on like for the majority of users and have it very lean, mean, uh, interface, then it&#8217;s like going like, okay, what of these seven things, is that what you currently want to do? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And or nine or whatever it was. And it was not extendable, so it was Oh my God. So that&#8217;s why it was very, for the user, not that, that&#8217;s why I&#8217;m saying like, uh, um, it was not easy to understand and they just want to publish and then we are going like, please do this checkbox and otherwise you cannot like, start the car. <br />So that&#8217;s why I was like, um, really against, uh, the, the post format because they were against the, the, the, the directory of WordPress having like becoming easier to use for people. Yeah. And, and as much as I love the feature, I think that&#8217;s a valid reason to, to remove it. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: Because even a lot of my clients. They want, they choose a, uh, post type, and they expected some result, something else came up. So a lot of people were confused. Users. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: I could see that. S all right, so I have here events, widget menus, custom post types, and r i p to post post formats, although I think it&#8217;s in the code somewhere, it&#8217;s, and, um, you, you can up to this point, right? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>They wouldn&#8217;t just outright kill it. They hit it and it&#8217;s still in there somewhere. And it&#8217;s just one of those few things in WordPress that had a lot of, uh, fanfare. And again, it just, for one reason or another, it just kind of fizzled a little bit. And the, and so anyway, um, so I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m gonna throw in mine. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, believe it or not, there is something that was once popular. And I don&#8217;t know if post formats, you could say it was popular, but I, I like to think it was at least it had a little bit of, uh, runway. There was something early on in WordPress that was popular, that was used quite a bit. And then inversion 3.5, I think at 3.5. <br />Feel free to correct me, uh, future Self that, um, it, it disappeared. Um, I&#8217;m talking about something in the admin. I&#8217;m talking about Something was, started very on in WordPress and in fact, it was part of blogging culture for a long time that if you had a blog on your website in the sidebar, I&#8217;m looking to see if peopleare starting to think about this. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>You had a list of other people&#8217;s blogs that you could l that you would link to, and that was called drum roll. Please think I broke my table. Um, blog roll. That was called a blog roll, but in the WordPress backend, does anybody remember what menu that was? No. Okay. Links. I&#8217;m All right. Thanks for reading it. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Links. Sorry, there was a links menu. No, no, that&#8217;s right. I made, so it was the links. So I don&#8217;t know if this was in WordPress from day one. I like to think like pretty soon in WordPress it was, I couldn&#8217;t find when it was actually officially added, but I&#8217;m pretty sure I could have, I put my mind to it. But link management phase out of WordPress, from what I can see around WordPress, 3.5, um, supposedly wordpress.com added them back or something along those lines. <br />I&#8217;m not sure if they&#8217;re still there. Um, so when WordPress 3.5 links was gone, and, you know, by the time it was gone, nobody was using it. Very few people were using it. Um, it, because I remember when it was gone, it was like one of those things that like, it was, it was getting old and crusty anyway. And it had, it would needed to be taken out to the refuge, trash bin, dumpster, whatever you kids are calling it these days. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I remember using that as one of the first things when I started with WordPress 1.5. Cuz blog rolls were a thing, you would like link the top. Like you people were reading your blog, they wanted something similar to, and you needed something on the sidebar. And believe it or not, um, when people stopped using that, they kind of went over to menus. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, like a menu widget or something, I think was, some people wanted to continue that. But yeah, the links management system blog rolls in the early days of blogging. Those were things, you know. Um, so anyway, um, r i p to R one links management. So that was for me. All right. Lastly, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: can I jump, can I jump in? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Can you link to something? Sure. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: Yeah. Yeah. I, um, I cannot like, because it was also hard for me to pick something and, um, uh, Simon, do you do the other thing? Um, yeah. Okay. So, um, uh, one of the, one of the things that, um, was very, was very, very important, but it&#8217;s not like really visible to see this to people, um, is for me the, uh, the rest api. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, because, um, if we talk about like what we are currently like doing with all the, the word we cannot mention here because it&#8217;s a, it is a, it&#8217;s a history show. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: The he who cannot be named yes. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: But without the rests api, many things currently would not be possible because that&#8217;s the foundation and like the, um, the sheer energy to put this into WordPress against all arts against, like, why do we need this? <br />It&#8217;s not a visible feature. And when everybody was like, but we need a rest api, XML L P C is not gonna make it. We need to have the future to really communicate with the WordPress backend, and this needs to be in WordPress. We really, really need this. And then we got it like, um, some base features in there, and now we have it like as the foundation of, we cannot name it here. <br />Uh, we have this, uh, foundation that if you would disable that you would like have a really a timeish and jump back in a time with the features that we are currently having. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Yeah. Yeah. The rest </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: and probably the next, next iteration of the WordPress interface, like WP admin. Is, I guess, very likely to also be based on the rest api. <br />David Bisset: So here are some runner-ups. Just thought I&#8217;d throw &#8217;em out there real quick. Auto updates, I&#8217;m, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: that was the one that Robert meant, uh, I, I should mention. Yeah, uh, we discussed that earlier. Um, all updates were introduced in 3.7 and changed, I guess, WordPress forever. Because since then, every WordPress website is updated, at least patched, uh, to its new version, which is really cool. <br />And until recently we, we also kept like all the, I dunno, what was the last version of, of 3.7 still supported like </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: 30, something like that. 30 or 30 something. Yeah. <br />Simon Kraft: So it was really crazy that all these old versions are still still maintained to a degree. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Mihir, did you? I, I had, I&#8217;m sorry. No, I&#8217;m sorry. I wanted to get Mihir. Mihir was shaking her head like a bo, like a bobblehead doll. Um, there, did you grasp auto updates because, uh, Mihir as well as everyone else, I think, because I know there was a lot of controverts in the beginning about WordPress back then. Smaller market share than it does now. Were you comfortable with auto updates, Mihir, in your, in, in your, um, decade? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Uh, well, I&#8217;m sorry you weren&#8217;t a decade before, but how were you comfortable? Were you comfortable with WordPress updates? Initially, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: no, because a lot of, uh, sites broke. That was because of the theme and the plugins. But as yours past auto updating WordPress is good because at least people have reduced saying that WordPress is not secure. <br />Yeah. When it is auto updated people, okay. Find that fine. And WordPress is secure, what we add to it with a theme or plugin. There is some vulnerability over there. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: So you, you, so you, you got warm to it. What were you saying, Tammie? Yes. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: Uh, I was gonna take in a different direction, so I&#8217;m checking wherever we are done on order updates. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Oh yeah. Well, uh, yeah. The other two I only wanted to mention in, in, in passing was the customizer. Um, that&#8217;s kind of, we&#8217;re getting, we&#8217;re kind of seeing that maybe in the rear view mirror a little bit. For a while though, that was the true no-code interface to customizing a theme, um, of, in core anyway. And la lastly was the, um, uh, let&#8217;s see. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I pasted a u URL in this URL does not make sense. There is also smaller things too that maybe doesn&#8217;t play to, I wouldn&#8217;t say. A huge part, but we had things like site health, um, import exporting, WordPress, um, in from core with the plugins, that sort of thing. So lots of little things. Uh, and <br />Tammie Lister: I had one from 2012, which was, uh, something that&#8217;s gonna get redesigned or reworked mm-hmm. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Uh, in this cycle or this phase, which is the new media management happened in 2012, which sounds a long time ago for it. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Yeah. I, I can&#8217;t remember what it was like before then. I think you had to draw something and mail it to your WordPress blog, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: be glad that you don&#8217;t remember it. It was, it, it was a big thing. And I think that, and even you could have picked like the old way we used to do revisions, which even now you look at revisions and you think, oh, that&#8217;s quite dated. The old way was even more dated back in the day. Um, and why I kind of thought of those ones was because they looked dated to us now, but. We are redoing them now. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I kind of think that that&#8217;s kind of interesting to think of. Like the cycle of like every 10 or so years is kind of when we kind of redo things, which kind of is kind Oh, that&#8217;s healthy. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: It&#8217;s a project. Hey, well we&#8217;re an open source. If we can get to the 10 year mark, that&#8217;s a win, right? Uh, pretty healthy actually. <br />To, just to wrap, just to wrap this section up. Um, completely forgot about revisions. Um, not that I used them too often, but, um, that and the little thing when the slider came in. Yes. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: From when we first got the sliding, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: I&#8217;m not sure if I took to the slider very quickly because I&#8217;m like, it&#8217;s kinda like going to the eye doctor, does a look better to you? <br />Or B, I worked on that A or B, no, it had nothing to do with the design. It had me trying to keep in my head what, and then the side by side stuff, I think, uh, wa was, was a lot better. But revisions has saved more people&#8217;s butts probably than, than one would remember. Oh. Because I, uh, that an auto save. Um, for a while, I don&#8217;t think, I don&#8217;t remember when, but I know WordPress, when it started, did not autos save your posts as you were typing them. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I remember Matt said, standing on stage saying, no, now your power can go out or whatever. And you&#8217;ve got that post and revisions, incl. And, and that also for me, blended into later revisions where, uh, you, you&#8217;re, there&#8217;s a previous revision. Are you sure you want to edit this or do you wanna look at that or go back to it? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: But I think back then revisions was, um, Yeah, I think I always kind of forget the words, but it was when we were trying to make things look real, I think skew morphic or something. It was like when you were trying to make like apple, uh, you&#8217;re trying to make things look real or those kind of design things. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think unfortunately it did inherit a little bit from that. Um, so I think now we would go a lot more, um, streamlined. Uh, design has come on a little bit. Uh, it&#8217;s more information based. It&#8217;s more how you are gonna process. It&#8217;s more kind of quick. If you look at the way GitHub and all those kind of interfaces are now, you know, we&#8217;ve learned. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>But back then we were trying to solve a problem that hadn&#8217;t really been. Kind of comprehended. We were trying to visualize issues that we hadn&#8217;t. So it was kind of really interesting to think of like, going back to it now with everything we know about the complications of those. And now we know that people probably do want to extend those, probably do wanna export them, probably do find them useful as well. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: We may see a little bit of a change in this department with phase three, with the, um, multi-user stuff too. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: Oh, I think we&#8217;re gonna see a complete change in that way, at least I hope we do, because honestly, that&#8217;s not gonna scale. <br />David Bisset: Yeah. You think? Yeah, I would. Yeah. I, I always get, I get, my daughter says, I&#8217;m trying to edit up, posting your site and it says, you&#8217;re still in there. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Can you close a tab? And I&#8217;m like, I, or I can kick you out. I&#8217;m like, fine. You&#8217;re your mother&#8217;s daughter anyway, so. Alright, so we have one last category here. Um, Mihir, you are up first. Now this category is how I described this. And I&#8217;m getting them, I&#8217;m getting these, these are getting wordier as we go along, but okay, so this is a memorable community moment or community initiative or community Cause that wasn&#8217;t a WordPress release and you&#8217;re saying, well, why did David put not a WordPress release? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, well, because there have been a couple of memorable WordPress releases focused on who was releasing, who is contributing, all great things. But we&#8217;ve got a lot of that feedback in the, in the past about, oh, it was, it was, um, you know, the WordPress releases, especially the ones where, um, the underrepresented groups took over forward word press release. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Great. That that could be counted as a community moment. Fantastic. But everybody says that when they first think of one. So I wanted us to be a little bit more tougher, no word press releases, but anything else is open game in terms of a community moment initiative or a cause. So, Mihir, I would love to hear what you&#8217;ve got to say about this. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: So, For me, when I joined the community, I always, uh, like the very few women who participated and when I used to go to work camps, also the women were fewer. So I just started, you know, gathering all the women and started taking group fit pictures and it became a thing, like if I was there in Word Camp, it was, you know, I had to do a group with them because everyone got excited, new people added. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So pre pandemic, each word camp I went to, I had, I mandatory went on stage in the lunch break and decided a time place where, you know, everyone will get together. I heard a few things, but I said, this is helping encourage other women. So I don&#8217;t see any problems, so why not? And I used to put on, put on Twitter as well. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: So, so, so you organ Yeah. It&#8217;s kinda encouraging someone else. What&#8217;s that? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: It&#8217;s kind of encouraging another woman to be a part of the community. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Absolutely. Um, so like selfies, but good, but selfies representing under underrepresented groups. I, I, they&#8217;re there. Yeah. The WordPress, I mean, you can talk about this all, all day. And this is not exclusive to the WordPress community, it&#8217;s tech in general, right. We&#8217;re always used to that. I have a daughter who is growing up and she kind of grew up in the WordPress community more or less for the last 10 years, you know, with the word camp exposure and everything. And you know, today we kind of take some of the efforts to make people feel welcome for granted a little bit. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, there&#8217;s still obviously a lot that needs to be done in the community, but back in the early days it was, um, You know, especially if someone, someone relates to an someone who relates to a subject or a con or a conference, they love seeing people that represent them on stage or representing them organizing an event. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right. And maybe it&#8217;s not apples to apples. Exactly. But you know, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s like, especially, um, especially if, just think if you&#8217;re a young woman, I can&#8217;t, but I have a daughter, so, you know, I&#8217;ve seen her reactions and, um, it&#8217;s, she, she can connect so well with when people, when women were speaking at meetups. <br />So just imagine like back then we just, you know, their focus wasn&#8217;t there cuz we were just happy to have meetups in ward camps, period. And then once we started getting people to speak, then we kind of, like some people especially, started to notice a pattern and that had to be brought to a lot of people&#8217;s attention. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that kind of, we kind of evolved into a way where, yes, okay, now we&#8217;ve got the ba, we&#8217;ve got some basics down, but now we&#8217;ve got a lot of improving to do because if we want this community to grow and be decent human beings, we should try to make things as as. And you know what that does for me as an organizer, I was focused on speaker stuff, but there were so many people at the work camps like you, Mihir, we&#8217;re doing these, um, side, I don&#8217;t want to use the wrong term because they&#8217;re important, but um, Site events, right? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Or something like that. But I mean that respectfully in terms of like, yeah, let&#8217;s, let&#8217;s take a, let&#8217;s get this certain group together and take a photo or let&#8217;s, or, or have this, um, mini meetup or like an after dinner thing at WordPress meetups and that sort of thing. Or even now online, you know, there&#8217;s various, um, communities out there that exist for particular kinds of groups. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, black Press and so forth that, um, that I, at least I&#8217;m familiar with. So I think that was a fantastic idea. I don&#8217;t know if anybody else is familiar with anything else or wants to jump in, but I think putting down a moment in terms of, now I don&#8217;t know how to word this exactly, so maybe you can gimme a term. <br />I can put in the show notes. I have women&#8217;s selfies written down here just because that&#8217;s how my brain works and I don&#8217;t wanna be canceled later. WordPress, sorry. If you can gimme another term. That&#8217;s what I got. What&#8217;s that? Women in WordPress. You got it. I will quote you on that. <br />Tammie Lister: Have you seen that? It&#8217;s possible to not just see one of you though, as well, which is what you are identifying. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>You are, you are saying that there&#8217;s more than one of you and there&#8217;s more than one possibility of you as well, which is really, really important. Um, seeing all the different possibilities that you could do in all the different areas, I think that&#8217;s important for whoever you are as well. So I love that. I think that&#8217;s amazing. <br />David Bisset: And more of it, and in the WordPress leadership roles too. So many are women. My family, women are the hardest working ones. Anyway. Okay, we got that on tape. All right, good. All right. Just, just made just a little insurance from, from my wife later. Um, alright Robert, let&#8217;s talk, let&#8217;s talk a favorite community moment. Or cause Okay. Something along those lines. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: So my, my job, uh, my day job is to challenge processes. Now, let&#8217;s see if I, if I come, if, if I have a runner up. So I just want to see if it&#8217;s like how close I am to the things that are not allowed. Okay. Uh, my, uh, favorite or my, like most re uh, community moment is when the, when the whole room at the, at the state of world guest. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, the point was when met stopped the release cycle, so when, when the, uh, before like, uh, before the, um, um, five oh release, um, like we had this like every three months we had to release and then, um, this was like, it not going to, it was not gonna cutting it because the, the changes we needed to do, um, were really, were too big. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we cannot, we, like I heard from so many core people that was not, um, um, Like was, was not gonna like cut it in a few months back to just get it in. So my question is, does counting of a re uh, like starting a release cycle counts. So because, um, that was like, I, we were in the room and was like, yeah, and now that&#8217;s why we, uh, need to explain. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Matt explained that and that&#8217;s why we stopped the release cycle now and everyone was like, what the hell just happened for me? That was like, he dropped the mic amenable </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: moment. I think he dropped the mic too. I can&#8217;t remember. Uh, when was that? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: Um, 2017, like, uh, weekend as Tammie, because she was uh, um, uh, design, I think Design team rep after that. Yeah. And like Matt was simply, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: it would&#8217;ve, I think it would&#8217;ve been, well it would&#8217;ve been 4.9, but we didn&#8217;t do that. Uh, and so yeah, it was four, 5.0. Then we. Had a pause, ended it. So yeah, I think it was 17. I dunno the year exactly. 17. There&#8217;s many years. 17, 18 blended into each other during that time. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: But there was a 4.9. There was a 4.9, wasn&#8217;t there? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: It were many 4.9 s. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: It would&#8217;ve been like 5.0. It was after 4.9. It would&#8217;ve been. So, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: so it&#8217;s kinda like 3.0, sorry. It&#8217;s kinda like walking toward a, walking halfway toward a wall and then walking halfway toward a wall. There&#8217;s 4.9, there&#8217;s 4.99, 4.9 9, 9, 4 0.99, nine, oh, not 5.0 yet very </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: long. 4.9 release, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: Yeah. But the, the, the beauty was really that, that there was no release. So there was like, we will have a release when we have a release and like there wasn&#8217;t release in between where we like fixed small stuff because we still needed to do while like Tammie and other people were like, okay. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>How, what are we doing? How do we, like, what is the goal here? And, and that&#8217;s why it was really for me, like it sh it, it really, uh, in this, in this moment, in this room at the Word camp us, you really could, like, you could feel a needle drop in the room because like, it was something that never happened before, because like you could, uh, um, um, you can set your watch to Roberto releases. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. And then we simply stopped doing that while deciding that we, like, stop doing it because it doesn&#8217;t make any sense. So it was really, really weird and really good because it, it helped us to make this leap that we not talking about right now, but it, it helped us to really, uh, prepare for that. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: It was also a stop and help was also kind of part of it. <br />It was a stop and this is how you can get involved. I think that was kind of the other bit like once everyone kind of gets over that Uber stopped, it was, and then here&#8217;s how you can get involved. So it kind of had that double um, or this, that was my, my through the haze of time impact, um, was it brings about the, okay, now I can get involved cuz people do like a release circle. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right. Um, so consistency. Now I get involved and now I can do that. And it, it did get us to 5.0, it absolutely got us to it. And without that we would not have had the 5.0. You know, there&#8217;s no point in releasing something there. We are radically different from what we were, but there&#8217;s no point in releasing something that would&#8217;ve been half-baked. It wouldn&#8217;t have worked. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Yeah. So we have actually done that once in our, at least once in our WordPress history. Right. Yeah, I, I, I don&#8217;t know if we&#8217;ll see a moment like that again, at least anytime soon. It seems like Gutenberg phases seem to be planned out, or at least not like that drama ish type of thing. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right. It&#8217;s not, it wasn&#8217;t a press release Rob Robert&#8217;s. Right. I remember. I remember saying Matt, Matt said it, and I think a few people had to change their pants. It was that kind of a moment where you just kind of expected like, this is all, this is all we&#8217;ve known, you know? And that&#8217;s funny because, you know, fast forward to a few days before working at us and, and, uh, you know, me in a hotel room, super caffeinated trying to finish something as Matt is in a chat room saying 5.0, it&#8217;s coming out now, whether we like it or not, it&#8217;s coming out, you know. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anyway. I better stop with the analogies. It was ready. Oh, it was, it was, it was ready. Kind of kinda like I&#8217;m on top of this, uh, on a heel skiing and somebody says, oh, you&#8217;re ready, you&#8217;re ready. And slowly pushing me off the ledge. It&#8217;s, it was that type of ready. Oh yeah, it was ready. It was ready. Um, I just did, you know, just, just thinking my life flashing before my eyes right before it came out though. Um, let&#8217;s see, Tammie, I think your next, um, community initiative, cause whatever, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: I&#8217;m going to take you back to 2014 to, I don&#8217;t wanna go Miami and the first ever kids workshop. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Ah, you actually snagged something. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: Oh. Cause that fell. I still have. Really fond memories of it. It kind of felt really incredible to, it wasn&#8217;t even really that organized. It wasn&#8217;t really that. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Thanks Tammie, really appreciate it. It was that big in, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: I&#8217;m sorry, but there&#8217;s no, like back then we were David all over initiative. I&#8217;m sorry. We weren&#8217;t, we weren&#8217;t trying to do we, we were just gonna be doing the event. We weren&#8217;t gonna necessarily try and do anything bigger with it. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think it planted a good seed that maybe took a bit of time before anything else happened, but that was absolutely fine. Um, and it was really important for just to start that. I think it&#8217;s both important for representation, but also important for an open source project doesn&#8217;t work with older people only working on it. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So for me it was incredibly special if I think of the people that were in that room as well, who were passing on. Many of them are still involved, contributing, in fact, all of them that I can think of. And it was just really special for me. Yeah. Yeah. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Um, that, now, just to be clear, for someone who was about to write that email to us, this is not the first kid&#8217;s camp ever in a work camp. <br />It was the one Tammie attended? No, it was a kid&#8217;s workshop. Workshop. It was a, well, I don&#8217;t like to use the word kids and work very close to each other because people get sensitive about that. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: Yeah. It was 2014. It was no like kids camp or anything like that. It was, it was just, I, I don&#8217;t think it was that long, either, we weren&#8217;t doing it for or anything like that. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Kids don&#8217;t exactly have long attention spans. So, yeah, that&#8217;s under we, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: no, it was, it was nothing official. It was no official kids camp. It was nothing. And it, it was, it was long time ago, so there was no kind of officialness of it. Um, but no, it was, I think we got them set up on a blog and we got them to customizing a theme and writing their first post. <br />That was as far as we got. That was our goal for the day. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Some people vowed never have children after that. Our younger, uh, younger volunteers look, well, I mean, I, I, it was there at Miami because I was at Phoenix and saw something very similar. I think it was a one day event at Phoenix. I saw there, I was there watching the kids. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Which nowaday, it sounds creepy when you say, are you here? Do you have any kids? No, I&#8217;m just watching them seeing how they do things. All right. Sarah, security and, uh, but I was watching how they did it in Phoenix, and this was, I don&#8217;t know, maybe it&#8217;s 2 20 12 or 2013 or something like that. And then, yeah, that&#8217;s when we started doing in Miami and now it, now there&#8217;s lots of kids&#8217; camps. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s a whole kids&#8217;. Section now of learning and, and people in charge of that type of thing now. And there&#8217;s probably gonna be something at, uh, us, I know there&#8217;s something at Europe coming up, uh, which is fantastic. So it&#8217;s exploded. And then when we did our 10th anniversary word pr, our 10th anniversary were Camp Miami. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It is prog, it progressed to a point where we had the kids, I forget what the ages were, I&#8217;ll be gonna say like seven to 11 or seven to 12, seven to 13. That age group doing what you said, more or less. But then we kind of took the pe, the teenagers, 14 to like high school level. And then we had a day where we taught them WordPress. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then a day after, like we taught them WordPress and how to build a store in WooCommerce. Then the next day we taught them s e how to market it. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: Wow. I think it was also back then we were being very experimental with what could a word count be? Remember the day of rest and all the different kind of buddy camps and different things. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Oh, yes. I think we were just kind of experimenting with different formats as well. Yeah, exactly. We were just, uh, I think that was part of it as well as like, how can we start? And it&#8217;s great to kind of think about that as well. So I think that was kind of amazing. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Fantastic. Memories. Still one of my mentions. So Simon, um, let&#8217;s, let&#8217;s cover, let&#8217;s cover the, um, anything from a community moment standpoint that stood out for you. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: Yeah, I&#8217;ll, I&#8217;ll stay in the, um, event space, I guess. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Oh, he&#8217;s, he&#8217;s choked up. This is a, this is gonna be so good. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: Um, and I just noticed that we&#8217;ll stay in the 2013 ish, uh, kind of timeframe. <br />David Bisset: It&#8217;s the WordPress 3.0 3.0 of years, right? Yeah. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: Um, because in, I think it was early October, 2013, uh, we had the first word Kim Europe in, in Liden and it was such a stupid idea, um, back then and still. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Wait, let me, let me write that down, Simon. Yeah. Stupid. Okay, go ahead Simon. Just wanna make sure I got this cuz </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: it&#8217;s just the, the kind of stupid idea that hold on and exploded into the kind of mega event that what computer is today. And it was totally different back then, but the idea to bring like a whole continent together and have a joint event, um, It was beautiful and also it was a nice event. <br />Um, I have to say that, um, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: possibly the first regional event, although I don&#8217;t know if Word Camp Asia or it&#8217;s forced in existence. What&#8217;s that? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: Yeah, yeah. Oh, it really was. And uh, there was no word can be asked before that, at least. No, no official one. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: There was none. There was just the, just San Francisco, the global one as, as we European call that. Yeah. And I think it&#8217;s, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: it&#8217;s some, sorry. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: No, you go. As it was the first, and it was done in an incredibly short time. Uh mm-hmm. I don&#8217;t think anyone ever realizes how short a time it was done in the end as well. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Somebody only had a few people, only had one change of clothes was that quick. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: But yeah. And, uh, so as, as someone that was involved in it, I, um, it was one of those things that I, I think you, I. <br />Rarely get to experience, but the venue was incredible. Mm-hmm. I plus one that mm-hmm. That was one of those venues. Um, we, several of us had gone to a conference before in that venue and got to see that venue and it&#8217;s was one of those venues that I would love to use again for something. It&#8217;s just a great venue. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: It really also symbol started to formulate the idea that we could have larger word camps and the community had matured to that point where we could bring in a larger event and we could coordinate across multiple countries for that sort of thing. Um, before that, um, you all you had was cities or I think in a few places or, you know, general regions like Word Camp Southeast or Midwest or something, some direction in the us. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but that was a very memorable moment in terms of community history. Cuz again, I don&#8217;t know, I, I think, I don&#8217;t know when Japan. I know Word Camp Japans have been very, very long standing, but, but for Europe it was, it was got a lot of attention and I think rightly so. So I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m really good for that cuz it kind of set the, it set the pattern for all for, for camp us a bit. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It set a precedent for, um, the scene. There&#8217;s War Camp Asia and there&#8217;s probably, I feel like I&#8217;m leaving somebody out. I think there&#8217;s one on the books and I just can&#8217;t remember what region is now gonna be. I know they want to have a war camp, Africa War Camp </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: Nordic. You had a WordCamp Nordic regions in, in, in Europe. <br />Mm-hmm. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Yeah. And you know, who knows in 30 years War Camp Mars. So anyway, that, I think that&#8217;s a pretty, pretty, pretty good thing to put a pin on in terms of the community there. Now I, uh, I could, as, as much as I like my, uh, work camp Miami, there really was nothing. Uh, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s nothing that equals that level. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I&#8217;m gonna leave that out because I&#8217;m biased anyway, I do wanna put together. You mentioned two things, um, from a community, uh, cause or initiative standpoint. One was reco, and I may have mentioned this in the past episode, so listener, I apologize if I&#8217;m repeating myself, but it&#8217;s also when we talk about the community, recognizing those that we no longer have in our community. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, so I thought, uh, one thing that stood out to me, that representative was the Kim Marshall&#8217;s Memorial scholarship. Um, and you know, and because a lot of the old, old timers remember her, um, I remember her at Work Camp San Francisco. Um, But also like all those other people that, you know, our community, the older community gets, people get old. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s life, uh, currently. So people will leave the community, uh, in that manner. Not, you know, not, not, not drama wise. I&#8217;m never coming back community, but people pass away or people have, uh, accidents and that sort of thing. So it is that, that kind of represents to me, not just the scholarship itself, which is a great initiative on its own, but it&#8217;s a recognition of, you know, we have important people that we want to remember the WordPress community, whether it&#8217;s in the form of scholarship or honoring them on social media every year, seeing their names and releases. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I know there&#8217;s a couple of people, and I am really, really bad at remembering his name right now, but he created a plugin. He was race, he was into a race car driving. I remember him in a race car. What&#8217;s that? Wipo? Yeah, VI, right. But what was his name though? Yeah. What was the name I, I&#8217;m gonna kill my why was 0 0 7? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yes. The user name. Yeah, but I&#8217;m talking about his real name and I&#8217;m frustrated with myself. I can&#8217;t remember it, but I remember when he passed away, I forget what plug-in he did. I guess I&#8217;ll have, I&#8217;ll include that in </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: Shownotes, but he did the regenerate thumbnails plugin and his Alex, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: yeah. Oh, okay. So we, we remember &#8217;em by reputation, but it&#8217;s all of those people that do these plugins and Alex Mills. There you go. I&#8217;m horrible at remembering names, but yes, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: I&#8217;m googling ju just like, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: oh, I don&#8217;t judge. Just keep your hands here. So we have Kim Parcels, we have Alex Mills, all of these people that, that are involved, that with the community that, that we, that we&#8217;ve taken their plug-in, we&#8217;ve taken their plug-ins and their work and they&#8217;re, you know, and it&#8217;s in WordPress core now to our popular plug-in now. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the other, the other thing I wanted to point out as a community initiative or, or moments was the Wampoo itself has, and, and I see one behind, um, Tammie, hopefully she knows it&#8217;s there. And we have so many, it&#8217;s incorporated, like every word camp now has a wpu. Um, it was also a lot of the kids&#8217; stuff had wpu involved as a cartoon character and, you know, that was part of the kids&#8217; camp stuff. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And, um, I&#8217;m sharing a link with you all right now. One of the, one of the coolest swag moments I ever had was, um, for, I don&#8217;t know which, where Camp Miami was, but we came out with these UNO cards, with wpu s on them, and. I put it on his open source on GitHub and be, this is the community angle, like a couple of work camps from like the other side of the world. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think from, I think from India or Indonesia, I believe it was somewhere in that general area. They pinged us and said, can we use these? I said, yes, they&#8217;re open source. So what they did was they just changed the design a little bit. Like they, they put the work camp logo on it and made it, maybe translated it a little bit in their language, but now people are saying, oh, those are cool cards. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And like, you know, I have a little bit of pride. I said, yes, those, I, those are cool when we thought of them over in Work Camp Miami. But I am, so I&#8217;m even more happy to see people repurposing swag like that. And I thought the Wampoo, um, was an original great idea and I&#8217;m glad that, um, um, Matt kind of adopted that as part of the unofficial slash. Unofficial. I&#8217;ll say unofficial mascot cuz I&#8217;m not seeing it on official. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: Unofficial. Official. It&#8217;s the official term for the, it&#8217;s unofficial official. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Just think of all the pins, all the badges, all the shirts. I don&#8217;t know if you ever saw the Work Camp Wpu shirt from Work Camp Miami that had the face, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: there was an actual physical wapuu. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Yes. The one walking around there. <br />wapuu became physical. I was wandering around. It was the best work camp Miami 2019. I know the people that were in that suit. It was like a walking Cheeto, but it was so worth to see a walking wapuu around. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>But yeah, it&#8217;s just, think of all the swag and like the MAs, the just the very thought of a mascot, um, itself. Not a logo, but a mascot I thought really helped shape the WordPress community was a great community moment. So anyway, thumbs up to all those people. I have one to, what&#8217;s that? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: Yeah, I have one to add. I think the sustainability initiative, which is a newer one. I think that&#8217;s just getting started. But I think. And gathering momentum and finding out what it means. But as someone that&#8217;s organized a word camp before and tried to do it, sustainability when we in Brighton, um, I think it&#8217;s really good from that app. But I also think it&#8217;s really good from just the impact as a project that we leave and like the technology, I think it talking about like trying to be around as a project for a while, we kind of have to be aware of all those aspects. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I think that initiative deserves a kind of mm-hmm. Call out because it crosses so many of our areas and it doesn&#8217;t necessarily get and so much kind of eyeballs I think. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Yeah. Make sure to throw that in the show notes by the way, cuz. We&#8217;ve shared so much here today. And, and, uh, no, I&#8217;ll include everything that you&#8217;ve mentioned. Everything you thought of, throw it in the show notes. I&#8217;ll do a array matching thing so we don&#8217;t get duplicates. Um, all right, so I, we&#8217;ve covered kind of the categories and we&#8217;ve covered a lot of stuff and I&#8217;m really happy cuz a lot of stuff we&#8217;ve talked about here today is, is not been mentioned in depth in my other conversations. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that&#8217;s fantastic. I got exactly what I wanted out of you all. But, so what I wanted to do is I wanted to go around one last time and see if there&#8217;s any random thoughts that appeared in your head about anything else. Sky&#8217;s the limit. In terms of, in terms of any moments. Um, you know, I was gonna say good, bad and ugly, but let&#8217;s just, we&#8217;ll, let&#8217;s just keep it or good or bad because I don&#8217;t have time to cover ugly. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, Mihir, um, what have we left out here? What did we not mention that you think could, could be mentioned real briefly? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: Uh, recently Michelle has created a side WP speakers. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Ah, yeah. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: So this. I see this helping the organizers with finding out, uh, speakers in their areas or n nearby do not go and approach them. So that is one thing which just came across my mind right </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: now. Yeah. Kudos to her for that initiative. She does so much now, the job things on Wednesdays and all her, all her community work, which we don&#8217;t have time to go into here. That&#8217;s fantastic. Yes. So speakers of speakers project. My, um, Robert, anything we might have, we haven&#8217;t touched on at all briefly? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: Yeah. Um, so small thing, um, the time when W P C L I became a make project, Because it was a project outside. And, uh, it&#8217;s really like if, if people like, cause the people who work, um, professional with WordPress sites and like on local, on local, um, machines and like automating stuff like the W P C L, I be becoming like a, a real make project with all the um, good and bad things around it. It was really, really good for the project and for Daba P c I to jump the simply make sure it stays around </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: wp I, yeah, develop. If, if you&#8217;re a developer and you&#8217;re not familiar with that, slap your face twice and get reading in the documentation. Tammie, what have we not mentioned here at all? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: This is almost like project management, but I&#8217;m gonna say in core, when started to have more organization core meetings and recognizing roles for releases, I think that that started to allow people to see where they could be part of it. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and. Gave enough order to those meetings that someone could follow along, you know, you can follow the agenda. Um, so those kind of things. Having enough project management, uh, so that someone could belong. So just being able to have a call. We didn&#8217;t do that. We didn&#8217;t have calls for releases and Oh, yeah. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And people being part of it and, and having like, Hey, would you like to have these roles? And people been able to step up and have those roles, that&#8217;s really important. And it&#8217;s not that far, but we&#8217;ve had that. So I think that is really, really important for us. Yeah. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: You take that stuff for granted sometimes, not realizing how you do, it&#8217;s never been, and </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: it&#8217;s not just like tech, it&#8217;s like documentation and it&#8217;s growing. <br />Right. The options that people can step up and be part of. So yeah, I think that, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: and that&#8217;s what some people that have come into the WordPress community in the last couple of years, they haven&#8217;t known a time before that. It&#8217;s kind of like </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: no. And Core Chats used to be a lot, there used to be a lot to be part of and try and follow and keep up with. Um, and it would put off a lot of people. So this is an incredibly welcoming, so yeah, more inclusive. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: It&#8217;s trying to explain what a V H S tape is to my daughter today. Yes. That was, there were times before digital media. So Simon, what? And one or two things briefly. We may not have covered that. Yeah. Could see. <br />I can see your gears turning. Sorry. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: No, no. I have something, uh, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: stuck in your teeth . Oh, um, oh, I&#8217;m sorry. I thought I could read, I thought I could read people. God, what else? You got anything in the tank? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: I would like to give a shine a light on a make team that I think has its work a bit undervalued sometimes. Um, the accessibility team. Uh, you do like a really great job speaking of inclusivity, um, in making sure that more people can use WordPress, and I think that&#8217;s part of democratized publishing. So they do very, very important work. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Yeah, I can&#8217;t argue with that. I, I am always amazed at the new, it&#8217;s especially so much harder now with all the more complex technologies, especially in the admin, right? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that&#8217;s still a work in progress. I think all the initiatives that we&#8217;re doing today, you know, ev moving forward, I, I want, I wanna, I wanna see more attention to them, um, because a lot of accessibility needs that kind of attention and just like performance or anything else. And so many times accessibility is, is not a first brain thought type of a thing. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I really think that deserves a real good shout out as far as I&#8217;m concerned. I&#8217;ve got three random things left. I, we&#8217;ve talked about acquisitions in the previous. Shows, but I always thought the Tumblr acquisition really stood out to me in terms of a potential that it has for WordPress moving forward that isn&#8217;t WordPress. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, Gutenberg is supposed to transcend WordPress. Maybe, maybe that&#8217;s, uh, Matt&#8217;s made that comment a couple of times, so it&#8217;s interesting to see where that might go. Um, P two. Speaking of things that, like some, somebody just said, does he need to do at the restroom? No. The letter p and two. Is a, if you don&#8217;t know what that is, Google it. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>But because, but when, when, when Tammie said something about the structure of, of, of backend WordPress organization, um, it is a blog that Matt and Matt actually talked about this a number of times, and I think they have a new version called oh two. Um, I&#8217;m not sure if that&#8217;s out yet in terms of a, like a plugin or a theme you can download. I think, I, I can&#8217;t remember. All I remember is it was, Cutting more cutting edge in them. But we used to, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: it&#8217;s a hosted version on wordpress.com. Yes. The </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: hosted version version. It&#8217;s like halfway. It was halfway. They&#8217;re like, you can&#8217;t get it, but you can. You can get it because it&#8217;s hosted this place. So if you don&#8217;t know what those are, just go ahead and Google &#8217;em. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>But P two was fundamental to the organization of a lot of WordPress stuff, even it as it exists today. So like as early as last year, I remember like Word camps, having a P two doc with people organizing writing notes in there. And Matt was always a big, big fan of P two in terms of like, you know, because it&#8217;s basically more or less a block for teams, right? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>A big, big, big use at automatic. And I&#8217;m pretty sure it still does. And finally, I have elevator advertising at work camps, and we&#8217;ll just leave it at that. So thank you very much for everybody. Um, Mission here wasn&#8217;t to cover everything. That&#8217;s impossible. But I wanted to cover things from your brains, cuz all you I respect and are unique and I you brought the game today. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Thank you very much. I greatly appreciate it. So, um, let&#8217;s go around and then do your, do your, let&#8217;s, let&#8217;s say we&#8217;re people, I was gonna say do your closing remarks, but this isn&#8217;t a talk. Um, where can people find you, uh, on social if they want to cont if they wanna follow you, because these days we, we, it&#8217;s, who knows? It&#8217;s social blog, whatever you want to, whatever you wanna share. But here you go first. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meher Bala: Uh, I&#8217;m on Twitter, me, I&#8217;m on LinkedIn and my website meher.com. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Yes. And we&#8217;ll also put these in the show notes too, so I don&#8217;t have to worry about spelling everything out cuz I can&#8217;t spell. It was very nice to have you, um, Robert, um, the, yeah, if, if, uh, yeah, go ahead. <br />I was gonna say, where can we buy that hat? But I don&#8217;t think that exists anymore. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Robert Windisch: That&#8217;s very like with pins or without. Um, so it&#8217;s, uh, it&#8217;s nubis on, on Twitter and otherwise it&#8217;s nubi it on the WordPress profile. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Thank you very much, Robert. It&#8217;s good to see you in the hat again. And, um, if you ever wanna sneak into a Word camp, just don&#8217;t wear the hat and people won&#8217;t recognize you. Um, Tammie, uh, where can we find you? <br />Tammie Lister: You can find me at karmatosed on all the things. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Yes. Pretty much still and don&#8217;t What about, yeah, well, we&#8217;ll just put show notes. Just that. And well, people will find you again. You also have a, um, you also have you started a new blog recently too, or am I, I have now next slab. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Include that in show notes as well, because we&#8217;ve been, I&#8217;ve been reading, I&#8217;m, I, I, I&#8217;ll, I, I be ashamed to admit, I don&#8217;t know when you started it, but I&#8217;ve been picking up the last couple of posts, so they&#8217;ve been very insightful. It&#8217;s only been a couple of weeks. Thank I&#8217;m so God. I put myself out there and it will work. <br />I&#8217;m sorry, go ahead. Yeah, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tammie Lister: I&#8217;m just starting to write just generally about where could WebPress go in the now and the next. Oh yeah. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Okay. I&#8217;ll throw that into show notes as well. Just some thoughts. Yeah. Well, you&#8217;ve always had some good thoughts. I think it&#8217;s worth sharing. Simon, where can people be finding you? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: I think the easiest is https://simon.blog/ . Yeah. Yeah. I was an early adopter. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Um, you don&#8217;t have to rub it in, but Okay. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: And I think I&#8217;ll link to basically all the other things from there. So I won&#8217;t try and, uh, spell out my masteron username and domain thingy. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Bisset: Sorry. Please don&#8217;t, because it sets off my Amazon Echo for some reason when you start saying master on things. Nope, we&#8217;re good. All right. We&#8217;re fine. Uh, yes. Yeah, Simon Dolo. Wow. And you&#8217;ve got an English translation too. Oh, that&#8217;s great. Last crappy Twitter in beds, please. Ooh, I&#8217;d like to read that one. All right. So Simon Dolo for you. So, um, just if you&#8217;re hearing this and you wanna follow me, um, best place to go would be either david bis.com or David bi.social. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>But thank you all for coming. Your time is precious. Greatly appreciate it. And, uh, we will talk later. Thank you. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simon Kraft: Thank you. All right.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>Today is a little bit of a departure for the podcast. It&#8217;s an episode all about the last 20 years of WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You&#8217;re going to hear a round table discussion with four WordPressers talking about their thoughts on the last 20 years. It features Meher Bala, Robert Windisch, Simon Kraft and Tammie Lister, with David Bisset as the discussion moderator.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They cover a lot of ground, and it&#8217;s fascinating to hear their WordPress stories from the past two decades.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Notes from David Bisset:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p>To honor WordPress’s 20th anniversary I locked myself in a room with four wonderful community members to talk about some highlights in it’s history.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Primary topics include:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>a memorable design or refresh in WordPress&#8217; history</li>\n\n\n\n<li>the most notable enhancement to WordPress core (that wasn’t Gutenberg related)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>a memorable community moment or cause</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s also lots of &#8216;forgotten&#8217; history and features also come up in the discussion. So, regardless of how long you’ve been involved with WordPress, you’ll learn and maybe have your memories jogged!</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Discussion subjects and links:</h3>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Robert Windisch</h4>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/10/23/mp6-3-8-proposal/\">https://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/10/23/mp6-3-8-proposal/</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/meetup-organizer/wordpress-events-in-the-dashboard/\">https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/meetup-organizer/wordpress-events-in-the-dashboard/</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/documentation/article/post-formats/\">https://wordpress.org/documentation/article/post-formats/</a></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 25 May 2023 14:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:45;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:92:\"Do The Woo Community: A Blend of WordCamp Europe, WordPress and WooCommerce with Sjoerd Blom\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=75203\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:90:\"https://dothewoo.io/a-blend-of-wordcamp-europe-wordpress-and-woocommerce-with-sjoerd-blom/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:465:\"<p>Sjoerd, the global lead from WordCamp Europe joins us to talk more about the event and his life with WooCommerce and WordPress. </p>\n<p>&gt;&gt; The post <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io/a-blend-of-wordcamp-europe-wordpress-and-woocommerce-with-sjoerd-blom/\">A Blend of WordCamp Europe, WordPress and WooCommerce with Sjoerd Blom</a> appeared first on <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io\">Do the Woo - a WooCommerce Builder Community</a>	.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 25 May 2023 10:49:47 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:46;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"WPTavern: MariaDB Health Checks Plugin Now Available on WordPress.org\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=145418\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:80:\"https://wptavern.com/mariadb-health-checks-plugin-now-available-on-wordpress-org\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2130:\"<img />\n\n\n\n<p>A new <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/mariadb-health-checks/\">MariaDB Health Checks</a> plugin is now available on WordPress.org, thanks to the efforts of contributors involved in the 2023 CloudFest Hackathon which took place in Germany. MariaDB is a popular open source database used by those looking to further scale their websites, as it is generally faster than MySQL with better support for a concurrent number of connections. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;At the moment it appears WordPress is dominating the PHP world, so this seemed to be the perfect target,&#8221; MariaDB Foundation Chief Contributions Officer Andrew Hutchings <a href=\"https://mariadb.org/mariadb-foundation-at-cloudfest-hackathon/\">said</a> about creating the plugin at the hackathon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p> &#8220;The MariaDB Foundation loves WordPress (I’m writing this post in WordPress right now) so it seemed like a logical project.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The plugin helps users debug their MariaDB databases by displaying important information, such as logs, locale, connections, character set and collation, and options. It also shows a graph of the number of queries and the execution time over the last 24 hours.</p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>The plugin also integrates with WordPress&#8217; Site Health feature with two checks:  an end-of-life check and a check for whether Histograms have been run. Histograms are an optimizer that can help improve MariaDB performance, and the plugin enables calculation of histograms to run on WordPress tables with the click of a button under the plugin&#8217;s Tools menu.</p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;There are a few features now and it is a good framework to add more features to in future,&#8221; Hutchings said. &#8220;This is a community project and is open to suggestions and pull requests. This is a project that we at the MariaDB Foundation want to support in the future.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>MariaDB Health Checks is <a href=\"https://github.com/MariaDB/wordpress-mariadb-health-checks\">developed on GitHub</a> where developers can follow the plugin&#8217;s progress, contribute to new features, and report bugs.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 24 May 2023 21:14:56 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Sarah Gooding\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:47;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:122:\"Post Status: WP 6.2.2 • WP Playground • Client-side Filtering • Future WordCamp Brainstorms • Plugin Review Update\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"https://poststatus.com/?p=149407\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:117:\"https://poststatus.com/wp-6-2-2-wp-playground-client-side-filtering-future-wordcamp-brainstorms-plugin-review-update/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:21113:\"<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-this-week-at-wordpress-org-april-3-2023\">This Week at WordPress.org (May 22, 2023)</h2>\n\n\n<div class=\"has-background has-theme-palette-8-background-color wp-block-post-excerpt\"><p class=\"wp-block-post-excerpt__excerpt\">WordPress 6.2.2 is available now for update. This reintroduces shortcodes in Block Theme Templates in a more secure way. <br /><br />Rich Tabor and WordPress Playground innovator Adam Zielinski discuss the capabilities and promise of WP Playground.<br /><br />What do you want to see for future WordCamps? Share your ideas on the post.<br /><br />Do you want to disable border settings for everyone but Administrators, and only for posts? See the Dev Blog. <br /><br />What&#8217;s the fate of the plugin review team with the primary maintainer soon to retire? It appears to have a bright future with additional contributors and tooling.  </p></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-infobox kt-info-box_94d1bd-77\"><div class=\"kt-blocks-info-box-link-wrap kt-blocks-info-box-media-align-left kt-info-halign-left\"><div class=\"kt-blocks-info-box-media-container\"><div class=\"kt-blocks-info-box-media kt-info-media-animate-none\"><div class=\"kadence-info-box-icon-container kt-info-icon-animate-none\"><div class=\"kadence-info-box-icon-inner-container\"><span class=\"kb-svg-icon-wrap kb-svg-icon-fas_filter kt-info-svg-icon\"></span></div></div></div></div><div class=\"kt-infobox-textcontent\"><h2 class=\"kt-blocks-info-box-title\">WP 6.2.2, Next Gen WordCamps, Block Filters for Client Curation, Plugin Review Onboarding</h2><p class=\"kt-blocks-info-box-text\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f6a8.png\" alt=\"🚨\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/05/wordpress-6-2-2-security-release/\">WordPress 6.2.2 Security Release</a><br /><br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f6dd.png\" alt=\"🛝\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/05/episode-56-what-to-know-about-wordpress-playground/\">WP Briefing: Episode 56: What to Know About WordPress Playground</a><br /><br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f4a1.png\" alt=\"💡\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/05/24/idea-generation-next-gen-wordcamps/\">Idea generation: Next Gen WordCamps!</a> <br /> <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f9e9.png\" alt=\"🧩\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/05/curating-the-editor-experience-with-client-side-filters/\">Curating the Editor experience with client-side filters</a><br /><br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f50c.png\" alt=\"🔌\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2023/05/17/plugin-review-team-update/\">Plugin Review Team Update</a></p></div></div></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-_b57166-6e\"><div class=\"kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center\"><hr class=\"kt-divider\" /></div></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-news\"><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news\">News</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/05/episode-56-what-to-know-about-wordpress-playground/\">WP Briefing: Episode 56: What to Know About WordPress Playground</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/05/wordpress-6-2-2-security-release/\">WordPress 6.2.2 Security Release</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpressfoundation.org/news/2023/kim-parsell-memorial-scholarship-for-wordcamp-us-2023/\">Kim Parsell Memorial Scholarship for WordCamp US 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">Look closely. Did you know this wizardry is currently possible in the Editor?!?<br /><br />Join us on Thursday for the next <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordPress?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#WordPress</a> Hallway Hangout where we\'ll discuss curating the Editor and building block themes for clients. RSVP<img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f447.png\" alt=\"👇\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /><a href=\"https://t.co/DPqrFHVXtT\">https://t.co/DPqrFHVXtT</a> <a href=\"https://t.co/XbZBC97QDu\">pic.twitter.com/XbZBC97QDu</a></p>&mdash; Nick Diego (@nickmdiego) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/nickmdiego/status/1660712789491548160?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">May 22, 2023</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-_8f6276-eb\"><div class=\"kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center\"><hr class=\"kt-divider\" /></div></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-13\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow\">\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/accessibility\">Accessibility</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/accessibility/2023/05/22/accessibility-team-meeting-notes-may-19-2023/\">Accessibility Team Meeting Notes: May 19, 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><a href=\"https://central.wordcamp.org\">Central</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://central.wordcamp.org/news/2023/05/siteground-joins-the-wordpress-global-community-sponsorship-program-in-2023/\">SiteGround joins the WordPress global community sponsorship program in 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-community\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community\">Community</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/05/24/idea-generation-next-gen-wordcamps/\">Idea generation: Next Gen WordCamps!</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/05/20/wordpress-community-team-discussion-9-the-next-generation-of-wordcamps/\">WordPress Community Team Discussion #9: The Next Generation of WordCamps</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/05/20/recap-of-the-contributor-working-groups-mentorship-chat-on-may-18-2023/\">Recap of the Contributor Working Group’s Mentorship Chat on May 18, 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/05/19/siteground-joins-the-2023-global-sponsorship-program/\">SiteGround Joins the 2023 Global Sponsorship Program</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-core\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core\">Core</a> </h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/18/wordpress-6-3-planning-roundup/\">WordPress 6.3 Planning Roundup</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/18/roadmap-to-6-3/\">Roadmap to 6.3</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/17/command-center-request-for-feedback/\">Command Center: Request for feedback</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/16/proposal-retiring-older-default-themes/\">Proposal: Retiring Older Default Themes</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/22/core-editor-improvement-smoother-site-editing/\">Core Editor Improvement: Smoother Site Editing</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/20/whats-new-in-gutenberg-15-8-may-17/\">What’s new in Gutenberg 15.8? (May 17)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/24/a-week-in-core-may-22-2023/\">A Week in Core – May 22, 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-developer-blog\"><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/\">Developer Blog</a></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/05/curating-the-editor-experience-with-client-side-filters/\">Curating the Editor experience with client-side filters</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/05/useentityrecords-an-easier-way-to-fetch-wordpress-data/\">useEntityRecords: an easier way to fetch WordPress data</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-meetings\">Meetings</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/23/editor-chat-agenda-24-may-2023/\">Editor Chat Agenda: 24 May 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/23/dev-chat-agenda-may-24-2023/\">Dev Chat Agenda, May 24, 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/19/wp-feature-notifications-meeting-notes-2023-05-17/\">WP Feature Notifications Meeting Notes: 2023-05-17</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Design</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/design/2023/05/23/wordcamp-sylhet-2023-contributor-day-recap/\">WordCamp Sylhet 2023: Contributor Day Recap</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/design/2023/05/22/design-share-may-8-may-19/\">Design Share: May 8—May 19</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-docs\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/docs\">Docs</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/docs/2023/05/22/online-monthly-docs-team-contributor-day-may-23-2023/\">Online monthly Docs Team Contributor Day May 23, 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/docs/2023/05/22/summary-for-docs-team-meeting-may-16-2023/\">Summary for Docs Team meeting, May 16, 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-hosting\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/hosting\">Hosting</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/hosting/2023/05/15/is-wordpress-compatible-with-php-8/\">Is WordPress compatible with PHP 8?</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-marketing\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing\">Marketing</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2023/05/24/day-17-wp20-from-blogs-to-blocks/\">Day 17: #WP20 From Blogs to Blocks</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2023/05/23/day-16-wp20-from-blogs-to-blocks/\">Day 16: #WP20 From Blogs to Blocks</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2023/05/22/day-15-wp20-from-blogs-to-blocks/\">Day 15: #WP20 From Blogs to Blocks</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2023/05/21/day-14-wp20-from-blogs-to-blocks/\">Day 14: #WP20 From Blogs to Blocks</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2023/05/20/day-13-wp20-from-blogs-to-blocks/\">Day 13: #WP20 From Blogs to Blocks</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2023/05/19/day-12-wp20-from-blogs-to-blocks/\">Day 12: #WP20 From Blogs to Blocks</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-mobile\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/mobile\">Mobile</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/mobile/2023/04/11/contribute-to-the-future-of-the-wordpress-app/\">Contribute to the Future of the WordPress App</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2023/05/18/mobile-team-update-may-17th/\">Mobile Team Update – May 17th</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-openverse\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/openverse\">Openverse</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/openverse/2023/05/18/catalog-postgres-exploration-effort/\">Catalog Postgres Exploration Effort</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/openverse/2023/05/24/community-meeting-recap-2023-05-22/\">Community Meeting Recap (2023-05-22)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/openverse/2023/05/23/openverse-monthly-priorities-meeting-2023-06-07/\">Openverse Monthly Priorities Meeting 2023-06-07</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/openverse/2023/05/22/last-week-openverse-2023-05-15-2023-05-22/\">A week in Openverse: 2023-05-15 – 2023-05-22</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-performance\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/performance/\">Performance</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/05/23/performance-chat-summary-23-may-2023/\">Performance Chat Summary: 23 May 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-plugins\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins\">Plugins</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2023/05/17/plugin-review-team-update/\">Plugin Review Team Update</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2023/03/21/use-of-code-generators-must-remain-gpl-compatible/\">Use of Code Generators Must Remain GPL Compatible</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2023/03/10/advance-notice-of-retirement/\">Advance Notice of Retirement</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2023/05/09/plugin-review-team-update-8-may-2023/\">Plugin Review Team Update: 8 May 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2023/05/15/plugin-review-team-15-may-2023/\">Plugin Review Team: 15 May 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow\">\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-polyglots\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots\">Polyglots</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2023/05/24/polyglots-table-contributor-day-at-wordcamp-sylhet-2023/\">Polyglots Table: Contributor Day at WordCamp Sylhet 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2023/05/23/agenda-weekly-polyglots-chat-may-24-2023-1300-utc/\">Agenda: Weekly Polyglots Chat – May 24, 2023 (13:00 UTC)</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-project\">Project</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/project/2023/05/17/wordpress-contributor-mentorship-program-pilot-program-proposal/\">WordPress Contributor Mentorship Program: Pilot Program Proposal</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/project/2023/04/13/wordpress-at-20-in-print/\">Building Blocks: The Evolution of WordPress 2013-2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-test\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test\">Test</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/05/23/test-chat-summary-23-may-2023/\">Test Chat Summary: 23 May 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/05/22/xpost-test-team-update-22-may-2023/\">Test Team Update: 22 May 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/05/18/fse-program-testing-call-23-rapid-revamp/\">FSE Program Testing Call #23: Rapid Revamp</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2023/05/22/test-team-update-22-may-2023/\">Test Team Update: 22 May 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-theme\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/theme\">Theme</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/themes/2023/05/18/hallway-hangout-curating-the-editor-and-building-block-themes-for-clients/\">Hallway Hangout: Curating the editor and building block themes for clients</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/themes/2023/05/17/theme-handbook-overhaul-phase-2-creating-content/\">Theme Handbook Overhaul: Phase 2 (Creating Content)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2023/05/16/themes-team-update-may-16-2023/\">Themes team update May 16, 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-training\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training\">Training</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/05/09/brainstorm-wordcamp-europe-2023-contributor-day/\">Brainstorm – WordCamp Europe 2023 Contributor Day</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/05/24/training-team-meeting-recap-for-may-23rd-2023/\">Training Team Meeting Recap for May 23rd, 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/05/19/training-team-meeting-recap-for-may-16th-2023/\">Training Team Meeting Recap for May 16th, 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-tutorials\"><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorials\">Tutorials</a></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorial/building-a-page-with-only-patterns/\">Building a page with only patterns</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorial/how-to-add-a-blog-or-news-page-to-any-wordpress-website/\">How to add a blog or news page to any WordPress website</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorial/introduction-to-wordpress-multisite-networks/\">Introduction to WordPress Multisite Networks</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorial/wordpress-editor-modes-for-streamlining-content-creation/\">WordPress editor modes for streamlining content creation</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-online-workshops\">Online Workshops</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=debugging-in-wordpress\">Debugging in WordPress</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=wp-dev-livestream-sendig-block-theme-2\">WP dev livestream: Sendig block theme</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=wp-dev-livestream-sendig-block-theme-3\">WP dev livestream: Sendig block theme</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=the-creative-side-of-blocks-vol-4\">The Creative Side of Blocks, Vol. 4</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=a-brief-history-of-wordpress-3\">A Brief History of WordPress</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-courses\"><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/courses\">Courses</a></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/creating-a-4-page-business-website/\">Creating a 4-page business website</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-wp-cli\">WP-CLI</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/cli/2023/04/05/wp-cli-v2-8-0-release-date/\">WP-CLI v2.8.0 release date</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-wptv\">WPTV</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/category/year/2022/\">Latest WordPress TV videos</a></li>\n</ul>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-related-news\">Related News:</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://nodejs.org/en/blog/release/v20.2.0\">Node v20.2.0 released</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.php.net/archive/2023.php#2023-04-13-1\"><a href=\"https://www.php.net/archive/2023.php#2023-05-11-1\">PHP 8.2.6 Released!</a></a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.php.net/archive/2023.php#2023-05-11-2\">PHP 8.1.19 Released!</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://262.ecma-international.org/13.0/\">TC39</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/composer/composer/releases/tag/2.5.5\">Composer 2.5.5</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-theme-palette-7-background-color has-background\">Thanks for reading our WP dot .org roundup! Each week we are highlighting the news and discussions coming from the good folks making WordPress possible. If you or your company create products or services that use WordPress, you need to be engaged with them and their work. Be sure to share this resource with your product and project managers. <br /><br /><strong>Are you interested in giving back and contributing your time and skills to WordPress.org?</strong> <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f64f.png\" alt=\"🙏\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/article/contributing-to-wordpress/\">Start Here ›</a><br /><br /><strong>Get our weekly WordPress community news digest</strong> — Post Status&#8217; <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/news/week-in-review/\">Week in Review</a> — covering the WP/Woo news plus significant writing and podcasts. It&#8217;s also available in <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/newsletter\">our newsletter</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f48c.png\" alt=\"💌\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-media-text alignwide is-stacked-on-mobile has-background\"><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/\"><img src=\"https://poststatus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/vertical-post-status-logo-250.png\" alt=\"Post Status\" class=\"wp-image-85823 size-full\" /></a><div class=\"wp-block-media-text__content\">\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left has-normal-font-size\" id=\"h-get-ready-for-remote-work\">You — and <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/#Agency\">your whole team</a> can <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/#choose-membership\">Join Post Status</a> too!</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left has-small-font-size\"><strong>Build your network. Learn with others. Find your next job — or your next hire.</strong> Read the <strong>Post Status</strong> <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/newsletter/\">newsletter</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/2709.png\" alt=\"✉\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Listen to <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/podcasts/\">podcasts</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f399.png\" alt=\"🎙\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Follow <a href=\"https://twitter.com/post_status/\">@Post_Status</a> <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f426.png\" alt=\"🐦\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> and <a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/company/post-status-llc/\">LinkedIn</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f4bc.png\" alt=\"💼\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n<p>This article was published at Post Status — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 24 May 2023 19:57:53 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Courtney Robertson\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:48;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:103:\"WPTavern: #77 – Mario Santos and Luis Herranz on What the Interactivity API Is and How You Can Use It\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=145358\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:117:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/77-mario-santos-and-luis-herranz-on-what-the-interactivity-api-is-and-how-you-can-use-it\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43138:\"Transcript<div>\n<p>[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jukebox has a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes and in this case, how you can start to make your sites more interactive.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast, player of choice, or by going to WPTavern.com forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you, and hopefully get you or your idea featured on the show. Head to WPTavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox, and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today, we have Mario Santos and Luis Herranz. They both work for Automattic but are sponsored to work full-time in WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The main focus of their work is the block developer experience, and they are part of the group of contributors that worked on the Interactivity API proposal.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The Interactivity API is the main focus of the podcast today, and if you&#8217;re working with blocks and dynamically displaying data, this is sure to be of interest to you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We start out the podcast today with the usual introductions, and get to know Mario and Luis. And then we learn what the Interactivity API is and what it can do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The conversation is framed around a blog post written by Mario entitled, The interactivity API, a better developer experience in building interactive blocks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this Mario shows examples of what website interactivity is. In short, it&#8217;s the ability for content to be amended on the fly without a page refresh. Of course, this is nothing new on the web. We&#8217;ve been seeing this for years in WordPress sites and elsewhere. But now you&#8217;re going to be able to create interactivity in a standard way across the different blocks on your site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The project hopes to absorb complexity and make the creation of interactive objects fairly trivial. Mario and Luis talk about examples of where the API might be used, and how it can be implemented.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We also discussed the fact that in the past developers have gone their own way to make their sites interactive. It all works, but it means that no two implementations are the same. This causes issues if the project is taken over by another developer. But it&#8217;s also a drain on resources.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mario and Luis make the point that having a standard way of creating interactivity will benefit everyone in the long run. We get into the weeds a little and talk about the approach the team took when building the API. They decided to use directives and we find out why this was, and what benefit it brings over other possible solutions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The project is still experimental, and they&#8217;re looking for people to test and report back on what they find to move the interactivity API forwards.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to. WPTavern.com forward slash podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Mario Santos and Luis Herranz.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast today by Luis Herranz and Mario Santos. Hello.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:15] Luis Herranz: Hey, hello Nathan.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:16] Mario Santos: Thanks for inviting us.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:18] Nathan Wrigley: You&#8217;re so welcome. We had an introduction on Slack from Anne McCarthy, who listeners to the podcast may very well have heard of, and she wanted me to chat to these two about the Interactivity API, so we&#8217;re going to get onto that. It&#8217;s a brand new project. Could be very interesting if you&#8217;re a developer implementing it, but also if you&#8217;re an implementer of WordPress websites and not a developer, you&#8217;ll be interested in the outcomes of it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Before we do that, the usual questions at the beginning. I&#8217;m going to go to Luis first, if that&#8217;s all right. Would you mind just giving us your backstory, how you&#8217;ve come to be on a WordPress podcast, how long you&#8217;ve been working with WordPress, who you work for as much or as little as you wish.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:57] Luis Herranz: Okay, thank you. I started creating websites with WordPress 2010, I think, maybe nine, I don&#8217;t know, a long time ago. And I wanted to start a company in 2013, with Pablo Postigo. And we thought, okay, we wanted to create native apps for different companies, like services and so on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And we knew WordPress, so we basically started with what was later known as headless WordPress, but back in 2013. And since then we iterated, we created a team. We got some investment and we started doing things on top of WordPress. Mostly in headless. First with native applications. Then we moved to just web have applications, but still on headless. Very focused on React.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And in 2019 we launched a open source framework for headless WordPress, powered by React. So we were very focused on developer experience and performance.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And in 2021, that company, Frontity was acquired by Automattic, so we could become like full-time contributors and focus on, well, basically what the Interactivity API proposal is today. Bringing some of those user experiences, what are possible with other solutions, to WordPress itself, on top of full site editing, or block themes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:31] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you so much. That&#8217;s really interesting. I appreciate your nice history there. Thank you. And we&#8217;ll ask the same question this time of Mario. So Mario, backstory please.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:41] Mario Santos: Thank you. Actually, my story is really similar to Luis. Well first, when I finished the degree, I studied industrial engineer, but I didn&#8217;t want to be an engineer. So I started trying different things, and while I got my first job, I created a store in WordPress with WooCommerce. And then, that is when I started to learn about WordPress and all those things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And later, based on that, I joined Frontity. I don&#8217;t remember exactly the year, 2015 maybe. And from there I really learned what was WordPress because we started going to meetups to WordCamps, and we started to, well at least I started to learn from the community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>From there the story is mostly the same as Luis. We were working on headless mainly. We were working with WordPress. And at some point, we were acquired by Automattic, and now I&#8217;m a sponsored contributor, working full-time. And as Luis said, we are focused on the developer experience, and the Interactivity API that we are going to talk about is part of it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:45] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you so much for that. So the Interactivity API, I&#8217;m going to link in the show notes to a post which you can find. Now the post you&#8217;re going to be looking at is on the make.wordpress.org website. It&#8217;s written by Mario. It was on the 30th of March, 2023 that came out, and it&#8217;s entitled, Proposal, The Interactivity API, A Better Developer Experience in Building Interactive Blocks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, if at any point during this podcast you become a little bit confused or you wish to have some more background, I would recommend pausing and going and reading what is an incredibly lengthy and detailed post, with actually a boatload of interaction and comments as well. It&#8217;s really heartening to see so many people chipping in, and giving their thoughts on this Interactivity API.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I guess the best place to kick this conversation off simply asking, what is it? What is the Interactivity API? What does it do? Why does WordPress need such a thing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:47] Mario Santos: I can start with this one. So, the Interactivity API is what we are proposing. The group of contributors that are working on that. It&#8217;s basically a new standard system to easily add front end interactivity to your blocks. Until now, most of the Gutenberg APIs have been focused on the block editor side, and there was unintentional gap on the front end.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So block developers could choose whatever they want. They could choose any Javascript framework, or other solutions. And the Interactivity API aims to cover that gap. Creating this standard.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So imagine functionalities like, like this post or e-commerce functionalities like add to cart, or the checkout, the instant search, page transitions, the comments form, without a page reload. So those are the user experiences that the Interactivity API aims to cover.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In a way that is real easy to build them, and block developers don&#8217;t have to deal with complex scaffolding or external tools. And it&#8217;s important to note also that it&#8217;s completely familiar and compatible with PHP and the block ecosystem. So overall, that&#8217;s what the Interactivity API is. Basically a standard to easily create any interactive experience that your users want.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:06] Nathan Wrigley: Luis, anything to add?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:09] Luis Herranz: No, it&#8217;s really filling that gap, or even that opportunity of absorbing as much complexity from the developers. Standardizing everything in a single solution, and making sure that it&#8217;s performant, and so on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So yeah, there&#8217;s some advancement in web development in other places, mostly in the Javascript ecosystem and WordPress has never been opinionated in the front end, so this is kind of the first time for WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But yeah, we think that it&#8217;s an opportunity as well to absorb a lot of complexity for the developers, and to enable some of the user experiences that were not possible with WordPress before.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:52] Nathan Wrigley: Now we have some show notes, and we&#8217;ve got a list of questions that we&#8217;re potentially going to run through, but I&#8217;m going to skip to the end, more or less of the list of our questions. Because one of the things I think to do at the beginning would be to provide listeners concrete examples of how this might be used.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So do you have any examples that you think would demonstrate clearly the kind of things that the Interactivity API is touching on? I&#8217;ll just mention one. Which is the very first thing you&#8217;re going to see more or less when you open up Mario&#8217;s article, and it&#8217;s a video. It&#8217;s pretty short, two minutes long. And it demonstrates something a little bit like Netflix, where you&#8217;ve got, a view of three or four different video thumbnails. There&#8217;s a bunch of different movies there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the intention is that you would like to preserve your favorites. And so there&#8217;s a little heart icon, which is lodged in the top left of the thumbnails for each video. And as you click on that thumbnail, the heart becomes colored in. It goes from gray to red. But also in a different part of the UI, in the right hand of the view, the menu, traditional place for the menu, there&#8217;s a little total which goes up from two to three to four, and if you remove the hearts, it goes back down to two and so on and so forth.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that&#8217;s one example of how you might use this. It&#8217;s able to do things on the page without needing to do page refreshes. And the idea is that this will be a standard way of doing it in blocks. And I wonder if you could give us some other examples. You mentioned WooCommerce and things like that. But let&#8217;s go into that a little bit. Some examples of where this might be useful for developers and end users to know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:35] Mario Santos: Yeah, so basically the use case is anything that is interactive and requires Javascript should be able to be done with the Interactivity API in an easy way. So imagine like a slide show or light boxes in the image. So when you click on it, it zooms, and when you click out or scroll, it goes out. Some models like search, subscription, quizzes, e-commerce integrations, like you just have mentioned.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And one of the features that is enabled by having a standard is the client site navigation that basically is navigating through different pages of your WordPress site without triggering a page reload.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s important to know that this is something that is going to be enabled by the Interactivity API, but it&#8217;s going to be completely optional. So if you don&#8217;t need it, you don&#8217;t have to use it. But it powers other features like you can see in the movie, that we are paginating between the different pages. We are in the query loop. You have the pagination block, and you can go through the page one to the page two without page reload.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And for example, well, in the movies demo, we are showing that you can play the trailer and you can keep navigating and the video doesn&#8217;t stop. So those kind of user experiences that, for example, in this podcast you could be listening to this podcast in WP Tavern, and you could navigate to the articles.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, maybe you can be reading an article while you are listening to the podcast in the same way. And the podcast will keep playing. Those kind of user experiences are enabled by client side navigation. And you can also find in the movies the instant search that you start typing and the list of results is automatically updated.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Infinite scroll could also work. Client size submissions like the comments form right now, in typical WordPress sites, when you submit a new comment, it triggers a page load. So this could be done directly in the client. So those are the kind of user experiences that we are talking about. And yeah, I think it&#8217;s important that this is totally compatible with the current block templating system. So whatever you change in the editor is going to keep working.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:54] Nathan Wrigley: That&#8217;s great, yeah. Luis, anything to add?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:57] Luis Herranz: I would add that I really like that demo. Because it&#8217;s a demo that we didn&#8217;t come up with. It was a demo that existed before. There is a version of that demo created with all the major Javascript frameworks out there. So there is one for React using Next, Vue using Nuxt, Svelte, Quick, Astro and so on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, you can compare now the WordPress version with the other Javascript frameworks, out there. I&#8217;m super happy to say that it really, in terms of user experience now with Interactivity API, you can provide the same user experience than the others. And this demo was created to show these type of complex or great user experiences.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>With WordPress, now with the Interactivity API, you&#8217;re able to create that type of user experience, but leveraging the server side and the block editor. So the other Javascript frameworks version is 100% code, where this movies demo version of WordPress is done with Gutenberg and everything is a block, and you can go and change wherever you want. Which we think it&#8217;s really powerful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And there&#8217;s yet another thing there, in comparing with the other frameworks, and it&#8217;s that if you look at the performance is a top performer there. It&#8217;s only 13 kilobytes of Javascript. Only a new experimental mode of Solid is able to be as performant as that one. So yeah, I&#8217;m really happy about enabling those user experiences, but with full compatibility with the Block editor and block themes, and with such performance.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:44] Nathan Wrigley: It&#8217;s true to say, I guess, that if you go to that demo, you will not be seeing anything that you haven&#8217;t seen somewhere else online. You&#8217;ve seen the ability to like things, and you&#8217;ve seen infinite scroll before, and you&#8217;ve seen elsewhere online the ability to paginate without a full page refresh, and you&#8217;ve seen comments being added, again without having to submit a new page and so on and so forth.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But this is creating a standard inside of WordPress. Why did you feel it was important to do this? Why not just leave developers to do their own thing? Again, we&#8217;ve seen WordPress websites implementing this. You know, I&#8217;ve been to countless WordPress websites where I&#8217;ve seen these features.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Clearly somebody&#8217;s dealt with it before and implemented it in their own way. I guess you&#8217;re just trying to make it so that everybody can build on top of the work that you are doing, rather than everybody going off in their own way and implementing a completely different solution based upon, well, however they wish to do it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:43] Luis Herranz: Yes. It&#8217;s about absorbing complexity. So, definitely anything you can imagine, it&#8217;s possible with WordPress. The thing is how easy is to do it. And with this kind of standard, our hope is that those user experiences are not only easy, but also working practically out of the box.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:05] Nathan Wrigley: I&#8217;m guessing that this standard is going to be something that you are aiming at developers. Presumably the developers will then make it fairly straightforward for end users to interact with blocks and what have you, to make this available to them. But how would the standard actually work? What is going on in the background? How are developers going to implement this?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:25] Mario Santos: If I can add one note to the why this standard, is I think it&#8217;s also important to note apart from what Luis says, is that it absorbs a lot of complexity. In an ecosystem like WordPress where there are a lot of plugins interacting with other plugins and those kind of experiences that we have.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s important that following a standard enables things like block communication. For example, we can see what we were talking about in the demo that you are liking a movie and it&#8217;s updating another block, in another place. So if different blocks, created by different block developers, in different plugins are not using the same approach, it&#8217;s really difficult to be able to communicate those blocks. And having a standard solves that. And yeah, that composability and compatibility to nest the structures of different interactive blocks is possible thanks to a standard.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:21] Nathan Wrigley: Right. Okay, so you&#8217;re really opening it up so that any block developer can implement this so that, I don&#8217;t know, a different block developer can hook into the exact same standards so that two completely separate blocks, created by completely separate individuals can have interaction via the Interactivity API, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:42] Mario Santos: Yeah, that&#8217;s it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:43] Luis Herranz: And they also use this, the same code, the same framework. Because if each block developer starts choosing their own framework, maybe some developers like React, some developers like Vue, some developers like Svelte or whatever comes next. Then WordPress sites could end up loading a lot of unnecessary Javascript.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So yeah, it&#8217;s important. Now that sites are, are a mix of blocks from different developers, these blocks are like small units. Yeah, it&#8217;s important to agree on a single kind of solution.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:17] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, good point. Okay, so how is it actually going to work then? You mentioned in the article, and I think one of you mentioned it just a moment ago, that you&#8217;re trying to make it so that people are familiar with PHP, don&#8217;t necessarily have to get into the whole space of learning React or what have you. I&#8217;m not entirely clear on what the position is there, but is the intention to make this as simple as possible for people who are steeped in WordPress&#8217;s PHP history.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:44] Mario Santos: Yes. We wanted to make it as easy as possible to everyone. So yeah, that&#8217;s included. And yes, we said this is compatible with PHP, and it has been designed to be block first and PHP friendly. So yeah, it&#8217;s should be easy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And going back to the question, how this standard work. Basically a system based on directives. I&#8217;m not sure, for those who are not familiar with directives, they are a way to extend HTML. They are custom HTML attributes that tell the Interactivity API to attach a specified behavior to a DOM element, or even transform it. So for those familiar with Alpine. it&#8217;s really similar, but it has been designed to work with WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:32] Nathan Wrigley: I know it&#8217;s potentially a bit on the technical side, but you talked about the CSS nature of things there. I&#8217;m wondering if you can give an example of how that might be implemented. What would you actually be doing, declaring those directives?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:47] Mario Santos: Okay, in order to create an interactive block using Interactivity API, you have to add directives to your markup. So you have some HTML, so you add custom attributes that are directives, and they call an action that is defined in Javascript in the view.js file of your block.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:06] Nathan Wrigley: What is the benefit of doing it in that way? You mentioned that you want it to be available to everybody. Is this the kind of thing that, obviously experienced developers can probably pick this up in a heartbeat, but are you trying to get people, how do we describe this, who are less experienced say. Is this going to be something that you could pretty quickly learn even if your developer chops are not all that impressive?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:29] Luis Herranz: Yes. The initial goal for this proposal is more enabling user experiences for WordPress that were not possible before, or were very difficult to do before. We also have a focus on developer experience, but that&#8217;s something that we think we can also keep improving over time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This doesn&#8217;t have to be like the final API of creating blocks. We can work, keep working on simplifying things over time. For example, right now none of these touches like the editor part. So if you are creating a block, the edit is just, is still done in the same way that it is done today using a React component. But maybe in the future we can explore how we can kind of extend these directives also to the editor and if it makes sense to unify and simplify the templating for both use cases. But is not the main goal of this proposal at this moment right now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:32] Nathan Wrigley: When you were making decisions about this, and you decided to go with directives instead of things like using React or something. Was there quite a lot of toing and froing? Was there a lot of soul searching, what the best way to do it was? Or was it just fairly straightforward from the very beginning that using directives was the way you were going to do it? How long did the conversation take before you settled on this? is it fair to say that everybody&#8217;s on board with this? This seems to be the way to do it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:58] Mario Santos: We believe so. I mean, we have researched a lot of alternatives. Actually, as we mentioned, we come from Frontity, that it was a React framework. React was like the first alternative we had in mind, but we defined as a list of requirements and we started researching different possibilities, and at the end we come up with the solution to be the only one that it was the only one fully compatible with WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Just to explain this a bit better. As directives are custom attributes that we have in the HTML, we are using the HTML as the templating system. And this comes with many benefits, for example, were not possible with React. As HTML is the templating system, the service rendering is supported by default, for example.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That is something really important in WordPress, or WordPress, APIs like WordPress hooks, that we are used to WordPress hooks in plugins, to extend some functionality, or translations. Those things, with directives using the HTML as the templating system work out of the box. And we can keep using those APIs to even extend the directives.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think this was one of the main blockers to not use React. This system, the service rendering is supported, and the WordPress API are supportive as well. That using other approaches can get tricky or even impossible, I would say.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:32] Luis Herranz: Yes. I think we spent like a year or so researching this. And at first we tried with Javascript, JSX, or even JS templates like Vue or Svelte, and so on. But yeah, I think that that direction, things start getting like super complex. And once we switched to using HTML as the templating language, it was like boom. Like everything works out of the box. Everything is like super simple. Everything is compatible. So yeah, it was like seeing the light a little bit.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:04] Nathan Wrigley: if I&#8217;m a current block developer, there&#8217;s obviously now going to be this conflict of, do I carry on with what I&#8217;ve been doing so far? I&#8217;ve got some kind of interactive component in my blocks. Do I carry on with what I&#8217;ve been doing up until this point? Or do I flip over and start using the Interactivity API?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You&#8217;ve obviously just mentioned some reasons why that could be the case. But I&#8217;m wondering if there is anything else buried in there. In other words, what&#8217;s the use case to switch? There&#8217;ll be a bit of retooling, you might have to rewrite a whole bunch of stuff that you&#8217;ve already rewritten.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Do you think the benefit&#8217;s going to be in there purely for people who are creating new things? Or do you think there&#8217;s going to be a benefit for people who already have existing things out there in the real world, to go and rewrite what they&#8217;re doing using the Interactivity API?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:54] Luis Herranz: Of course, as everything in WordPress, this is optional. Even though we want it to become a standard. It&#8217;s optional. But there&#8217;s going to be some kind of sitewide experiences that can only be enabled if all the blocks use this language, or this standard. So yeah, our hope is that there&#8217;s not going to be any reason for new blocks to not use this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because it absorbs a lot of complexity and it works out the box with all these things. But there&#8217;s also going to be some benefit on migrating existing blocks to this system if you want to make your blocks compatible with these new user experiences. And also, get rid of all the complexity that you have to deal with in terms of bundling and performance and things like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:42] Mario Santos: And actually it can also improve the user experiences, beause due to this complexity, we have seen many cases of blocks using React in the front end, but having issues with the server side rendering or not having server side rendering at all. So it could be a good approach to migrate to the Interactivity API, because it&#8217;s going to be easier to improve their blocks to support server side rendering, hooks, or other user experiences. There may be cases that they could benefit from that as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:13] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I guess the intention would be for a slow but steady migration over to using the Interactivity API, to the point where it just doesn&#8217;t make sense to use anything else. One of you, I can&#8217;t remember which one of you it was, mentioned performance implications there. I&#8217;m just wondering if you could dwell on that a little bit. Have you, in your testing so far, really noticed this? Has it speeded things up, made less use of resources and so on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:39] Mario Santos: Yes. We&#8217;ve been testing and we want to test everything better and we will keep testing it in real sites. But it&#8217;s something that we had in mind from the beginning, that it has to be as performant as possible. And that&#8217;s why the runtime code is so small. It&#8217;s around 10 kilobytes. And yes, Luis before compared with other Javascript frameworks is performing pretty well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think we did mention this, but it&#8217;s using React under the system. So that&#8217;s why it is so small. And yeah, it is actually performant and we are looking for other ways of optimizing it. For example, we want to only send the directives that are needed by the blocks that are in the page. Or we want to send the scripts so they don&#8217;t block the page rendering.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Or for example, we are also exploring the possibility of the scripts, so they are only load when they are in the view port. So, yeah, overall I would say it&#8217;s performant. It&#8217;s been designed to be performant. The code is relatively small, and we are still looking for ways to optimize it even more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:51] Luis Herranz: Yeah, I think that&#8217;s important. It&#8217;s not only performant today, but you have the guarantee that it&#8217;s going to be performant in the future, in the terms of you don&#8217;t have to, as a block developer, you don&#8217;t have to deal with performance in that sense anymore. Because that&#8217;s absorbed now by, well will be, hopefully absorbed by WordPress at some point.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then if there&#8217;s something new in the web platform that can be leveraged to increase the performance and so on, it will be done in the WordPress side. So your block will just benefit from that, from just adopting this standard.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:29] Nathan Wrigley: In the article that you wrote, Mario, the first word is the word proposal. Which implies that this is a work in progress, shall we say. And I&#8217;m just wondering how far down the path of usability you would say you&#8217;ve got. In other words, can developers begin using this out of the box? Have you seen real world examples of people using this?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And have you had some interest from developers who perhaps haven&#8217;t implemented it, but certainly want to get on board? Because I&#8217;m guessing the more yes&#8217;s we can answer to that question, the more likely it is that other people will say, okay, yeah, let&#8217;s take a, let&#8217;s take a look at this. So, can you use it, and have people been using it?.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:08] Mario Santos: I would say, yes, you can use it, but we remind that this is still experimental, although we included the proposal word there. This is still experimental, very likely to change. So the APIs that we are using right now, that are used for example in the movies demo site, we are confident that they work, but maybe the syntax change.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we haven&#8217;t promoted it yet to be used too much. There are people experimenting with it and giving feedback. For example, there&#8217;s an ongoing experiment in WooCommerce to replicate some of their blocks using directives. But there&#8217;s nothing in production yet because, as I said, this is still experimental.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There are some missing functionalities that may break your site, and it doesn&#8217;t have any documentation yet. So, I would say you can use it at your own risk because it&#8217;s experimental. We would love people to test it. To give feedback. We want to understand better if it&#8217;s easy to use the blockers that people may face.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Just to to clarify. In order to be able to use it, we are working on repository in GitHub. It&#8217;s a plugin that you can install, and from there you can create your own interactive blocks. Or if you prefer, there&#8217;s also the repository for the movies, with some examples that you can take a look and modify or whatever you want to do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:34] Nathan Wrigley: Are those repositories linked from Mario&#8217;s article on make.wordpress.org?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:40] Mario Santos: Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:41] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, so perfect. So if you want to find those, you can just go to the article, which is going to be in the show notes and you can find them all there. Now you&#8217;re both working at Automattic, and although it was only about 30 minutes ago that you gave me your bio, I wasn&#8217;t quite sure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I know that you&#8217;re both sponsored full-time in WordPress. Is this project, the Interactivity API, is this a focus for both of you at the moment? In other words, are you being asked to implement this, full-time, part-time? Are you tasked with making this happen?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:33:12] Luis Herranz: Yes, we are. But we are not the only ones. It&#8217;s a large group of contributors. But yes. It was part of when we stopped developing Frontity the headless framework, and joined Automattic, it was precisely to focus on this. And we thought it made a lot of sense. Yeah, and thanks to Automattic for sponsoring us to be able to work on this for WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:33:40] Mario Santos: One note on this, as you said, there are more contributors working on this Interactivity API, and yeah, we are part of a bigger group that is working on the whole developer experience of Gutenberg. So this is just a project to improve the front end interactive parts of your blocks, but there are ongoing efforts to improve the whole developer experience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:04] Luis Herranz: Yeah, and maybe it&#8217;s a good moment to say that if anyone is interested in this topic, just come to the repository and so on. And contact us and join us.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:15] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I was going to ask about exactly that. How open are you to contributions? Presumably any people that you can get interested in this, the more the merrier.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:24] Luis Herranz: A hundred percent open. We need people. We need people testing these. We need people using it. We need people giving feedback. Sharing different ideas. The most exposure, the better. How do you say that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:37] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, exactly that. So I guess really if this podcast serves to do anything, it would be exactly that. It would be to encourage people to go over. Read the post on make.wordpress.org, and if you&#8217;re interested and you think that you can help, then certainly it looks like your help would be most welcome. Testing, getting involved.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In terms of what&#8217;s coming, you mentioned that there are things which you desire to have. So I guess that&#8217;s a roadmap question. What is on the roadmap? What do you want to have in there that is not in there? Don&#8217;t worry about timeframes. It might be a year off, two years off, six months, doesn&#8217;t really matter. What are you hoping that it will do that it currently is unable to do?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:16] Mario Santos: Basically finish the Interactivity API, because it&#8217;s not finished. But, for example, our initial idea is to create the list of core directives that covers, I don&#8217;t know, 90% of the use cases, most of the use cases. Although then developers can create their custom directives.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So for example, that list is not finished yet. We still have to ensure that the APIs work for most of the use cases. We have to finish. And our idea for this is to, at some point, include it as experimental in Gutenberg. Start testing it in real core blocks, for example. Doing some experiments there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ensure that those user experiences are easy to create with the Interactivity API. Start receiving more feedback. So yeah, the idea is that. Keep experimenting. Keep developing the API. Receive feedback of users using it. And I think that&#8217;s it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:16] Luis Herranz: It&#8217;s going to be important the moment when we add, we added as experimental API in Gutenberg. Because that&#8217;s going to increase the exposure by, I don&#8217;t know, ten fold.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>tenfold.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:25] Nathan Wrigley: One of you mentioned before we click record that you are going to be giving a presentation at WordCamp Europe around the Interactivity API. By good coincidence, this podcast episode is going out just prior to that. So it may be that people listening to this are very soon going to be getting in the car train or a plane to head to Athens. Which one of you is giving that talk and what is it that you&#8217;re going to be covering exactly?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:51] Luis Herranz: That would be me, Luis. I hope Mario helps.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:55] Mario Santos: Yeah, I will help.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:57] Luis Herranz: It&#8217;s going to be a workshop. I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s a two hour workshop or two hour and a half workshop. It&#8217;s going to be hands-on. A step by step introduction to the Interactivity API and creating some interactive blocks and user experiences.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:12] Nathan Wrigley: So very much a hands-on experience. You are going to be teaching people and hopefully getting them to learn in real time. Do you know if any of that gets recorded and put on WordPress TV?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:22] Luis Herranz: I don&#8217;t know if workshops are recorded or not. Presentations are, yes. I don&#8217;t know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:27] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, okay. So you can very much be seen at WordCamp Europe, in Athens. Hopefully both Luis and Mario are going to be there. Head over to the workshop and say hi, and get involved. If people want to reach out to either of you, be that on social media or email or whatever works best. Maybe we can go to Luis first. Can you give us some details of where people could get in touch with you, specifically around this topic?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:53] Luis Herranz: Sure. I actually started like, I left Twitter for a while and I&#8217;m back from last week or so. I&#8217;m going to try to answer any question that people may have about the Interactivity API and to share the progress there at my personal account, which is @luisherranz, like my name and surname in Twitter.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:11] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you very much, and Mario, where can we reach you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:14] Mario Santos: I would say Twitter as well. I&#8217;m not actively tweeting, but if someone writes to me, I will answer for sure. Handle is @santosguillamot. It&#8217;s a bit difficult, so maybe it&#8217;s better to include the link?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:28] Nathan Wrigley: I will link to it in the show notes because yeah, that might be the best way of doing it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:33] Luis Herranz: And probably I would say come by the Block Interactivity Experiments repository. So in GitHub, WordPress slash block interactivity experiments. And then there&#8217;s, open a issue, open a discussion. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:47] Mario Santos: And if people don&#8217;t use Twitter, I think they can reach both of us also in WordPress Slack, if they prefer to do so.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:55] Nathan Wrigley: I will link to both of those things as well. I will include both of your Twitter handles and both of your Slacks, plus all of the links to anything that we mentioned during the course of the podcast. So yeah, an interesting discussion about the Interactivity API. I know it&#8217;s not just the pair of you, but Luis and Mario, much appreciation for taking on this work, which hopefully in the near future will be improving, not only the performance, but the interactivity of our WordPress websites. Thanks very much for joining me today.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:21] Mario Santos: Thank you a lot for inviting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:23] Luis Herranz: Thanks, Nathan.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://twitter.com/santosguillamot\">Mario Santos</a> and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/luisherranz\">Luis Herranz</a>. They both work for Automattic, but are sponsored to work full-time in WordPress. The main focus of their work is the block developer experience, and they are part of the group of contributors that worked on the Interactivity API proposal.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The Interactivity API is the main focus of the podcast today, and if you&#8217;re working with blocks and dynamically displaying data, this is sure to be of interest to you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We start out the podcast with the usual introductions and get to know Mario and Luis, and then we learn what the Interactivity API is, and what it can do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The conversation is framed around a blog post written by Mario entitled The Interactivity API, a Better Developer Experience in Building Interactive Blocks. In this, Mario shows examples of what website interactivity is. In short, it’s the ability for content to be amended on-the-fly without a page refresh.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Of course, this is nothing new on the web, we’ve been seeing this for years in WordPress sites and elsewhere, but now you’re going to be able to create interactivity in a standard way across the different blocks on your site. The project hopes to absorb complexity and make the creation of interactive objects fairly trivial. Mario and Luis talk about examples of where the API might be used and how it can be implemented.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We also discuss the fact that in the past developers have gone their own way to make their sites interactive. It all works, but it means that no two implementations are the same. This causes issues if the project is taken over by another developer, but it’s also a drain on resources. Mario and Luis make the point that having a standard way of creating interactivity will benefit everyone in the long run.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We get into the weeds a little and talk about the approach the team took when building the API. They decided to use directives, and we find out why this was and what benefit it brings over other possible solutions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The project is still experimental, and they’re looking for people to test and report back on what they find to move the Interactivity API forwards.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links.</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Frontity</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/30/proposal-the-interactivity-api-a-better-developer-experience-in-building-interactive-blocks/\">Proposal: The Interactivity API – A better developer experience in building interactive blocks</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/block-interactivity-experiments\">Interactivity API GitHib repo</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://github.com/wordpress/wp-movies-demo\">Repo for the movies demo</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2023/session/building-interactive-blocks-a-step-by-step-workshop/\">Luis&#8217; workshop at WordCamp Europe 2023</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://twitter.com/luisherranz\">Luis&#8217; Twitter</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://twitter.com/santosguillamot\">Mario&#8217;s Twitter</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/block-interactivity-experiments\">Block Interactivity Experiments repo</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 24 May 2023 14:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:49;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:87:\"HeroPress: About how WordPress saved my life. – Sobre como WordPress me salvo la vida\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56:\"https://heropress.com/?post_type=heropress-essays&p=5574\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:140:\"https://heropress.com/essays/about-how-wordpress-saved-my-life/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=about-how-wordpress-saved-my-life\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:15217:\"<img width=\"1024\" height=\"512\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/052323-2-min.jpg\" class=\"attachment-large size-large wp-post-image\" alt=\"Pull Quote: The opportunity that the Universe gave me is called WordPress. La oportunidad que me dio el Universo se llama WordPress.\" /><p><a href=\"https://heropress.com/feed/#espanol\">Este ensayo también está disponible en español.</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Hello, my name is Rita Robles Loaiza, I am a computer systems engineer and I live in Cartago, Costa Rica. Today I want to tell you a little bit about my story and how WordPress saved my life.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-about-the-beginnings\"><strong>About the beginnings</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>I am the youngest of 4 siblings, and the one who for many reasons as we say here in Costa Rica &#8220;went out of the basket&#8221;. Since I was a child I had an affinity for technology, I will never forget the first time I used a computer and how my older sister taught me to use Windows 95 back in 1997 or the first time I was able to program a Lego controller in Robotics class at the age of 12. Even with that affinity at 17 years old I said I wanted to be a chef, and I refused the idea of being an engineer. When I left school and the bubble in which I was I could identify that I had a whole world ahead of me and that I had to follow one of the best&nbsp; pieces of advice my mom could have given me: &#8220;Try hard&#8221;.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>About My First Job and Entering the University.</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>In 2013 I had the opportunity to start with my first job, that experience opened my mind and was my school, pure and hard about survival and behavior. This job was as an assistant in a Laboratory of chemical and microbiological analysis, the biggest WOW of my life I lived here, in the middle of test tubes, beakers, Erlenmeyer’s I realized all the potential I had, and that creativity and enthusiasm would be my two great weapons, this without knowing that my main virtue is and will be resilience. In the middle of that job and against my wishes I started to study programming, I really did not feel fulfilled even though I liked technology, the Rita of now believes that in the midst of so many changes that rejection was my defense mechanism to everything that was happening around me.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Leaving the Laboratory and the change of university</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>After 2 years I suffered an extremely unfair dismissal disguised as economic problems in the company, after many years I understood that they did me a favor and that this action gave me the wings I needed to join the world of technology, while that happened to me and in the middle of my search for the true taste for what I was studying, I changed University, what a decision, so far has been the best I have taken in terms of education, thanks to that change I found what I really liked and was a breeding ground to achieve complete engineering. Finally, after all this, I was incorporated in different organizations with various roles focused on technology.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Rita turned to dust and ashes.</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>After a while and finishing my career, I decided to start my own business and entrepreneurship journey with 2 friends. Together we founded a boutique technology and innovation company, in the midst of our business empiricism we managed to meet many people and develop many projects, it was here where I had my first approach with WordPress in a meetup organized by the community of San Jose. At a certain point, my 2 friends abandoned the project and I decided to continue alone (big mistake), the company kept growing, I kept building many more projects, I incorporated more people until everything blew up in my face, it was absolutely unsustainable, and alone, without a job, and without any hope I became dust and ashes believing that I could not get up.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Teaching as a weapon of defense</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>In 2018, the career director of the University where I studied contacted me to offer me the opportunity to be a Database teacher. I refused, believing that I did not have enough skills to assume that role, that thought was a product of everything that was happening with entrepreneurship, my director insisted, and I accepted, and that was how on May 19, 2018 I taught my first university class. From that moment until now, 5 years later, I can say that it was one of the smartest decisions I could make, teaching opened the doors to the possibility of rebirth, rebuilding myself and learning from my students. It was the university that in times of difficulties made me grow and get up from everything that was happening, it was here where I understood that resilience is and will be my greatest virtue.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>WordPress before my eyes</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>In 2019, in a meeting of a women&#8217;s collective, I met the person who pushed me the most in this world, my great friend Ericka, she invited me to go to meetups of the WordPress San Jose community, I knew I had to make an extra effort to just limit myself to go to Meetups, so thanks to her and everything she told me about WordPress I took the initiative to look for tutorials and start learning on my own. It was in this year where I developed my first project with WordPress and opened the doors to one of the career paths that have made me feel happy and fulfilled.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">WordPress saved my life</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Excited by that project, I continued studying and getting involved in the community, participating in meetups, and organizing WordCamps, to the point that this year 2023 I had the opportunity to be Lead Organizer of WordCamp San Jose 2023. In 2019 in the midst of so much uncertainty came to me a job ad in GreenGeeks web hosting in the role of WordPress Specialist, without any expectation I sent my resume until I got the pleasant surprise that I was hired in February 2020.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>WordPress and the COVID-19 pandemic</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>It was thanks to this opportunity that I fully potentiated my taste and career towards WordPress, managing to get many projects for Foundations and NGOs in which through WordPress we can reach many interested people. It was also in this instance in which I managed to participate for the first time as a speaker at a WordCamp, this nourished my love for WordPress and the desire to continue sharing with all the people who have the same passion.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress changed my life, put it in order and gave me guidelines to grow personally and professionally, the opportunity that the Universe gave me is called WordPress and all my life I will be grateful for that.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id_ade563-ae alignnone kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout\"><div class=\"kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-1-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top\">\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column_d879cf-9a\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<h2 id=\"work-environment\" class=\"kt-adv-heading_1e8c32-97 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\">Rita&#8217;s Work Environment</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>We asked Rita for a view into her development life and this is what she sent! </p>\n\n\n	<div class=\"hotspots-image-container\">\n		<img width=\"2560\" height=\"1144\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/IMG_5886-scaled-1.jpg\" alt=\"Rita\" class=\"hotspots-image skip-lazy\" />\n	</div>\n\n\n\n\n<p class=\"kt-adv-heading_b61d45-c4 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading has-theme-palette-9-background-color has-background\">HeroPress would like to thank <a href=\"https://wpdrawattention.com/\">Draw Attention</a> for their donation of the plugin to make this interactive image!</p>\n</div></div>\n\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<h1 id=\"espanol\" class=\"kt-adv-heading_96d019-44 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\"><strong>Sobre como WordPress me salvo la vida</strong></h1>\n\n\n\n\nEscucha el ensayo de Rita con su propia voz\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<p>Hola, mi nombre es Rita Robles Loaiza, soy Ingeniera en sistemas de computación y vivo en Cartago, Costa Rica. Hoy quiero contarles un poco sobre mi historia y como WordPress me salvo la vida.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Sobre los inicios</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Soy la menor de 4 hermanos, y la que por muchas razones como decimos aquí en Costa Rica se “salió del canasto”. Desde que era niña tuve afinidad por la tecnología, jamás olvidare la primera vez que utilice una computadora y como mi hermana mayor me enseñó a utilizar Windows 95 allá por 1997 o la primera vez que pude programar un controlador de Lego en la clase de Robótica a los 12 años. Aun con esa afinidad a los 17 años decía que quería ser chef, y me negaba a la idea de ser Ingeniera. Cuando Sali del colegio y de la burbuja en la que me encontraba pude identificar que tenía todo un mundo por delante frente a mis ojos y que debía seguir uno de los mejores consejos que mi mamá me ha podido dar: “Esfuérzate”.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Sobre Mi primer trabajo y el ingreso a la Universidad</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>En el 2013 tuve la oportunidad de iniciar con mi primer empleo, definitivamente esa experiencia abrió mi mente y fue mi escuela, pura y dura sobre la sobrevivencia y el comportamiento. Este empleo fue como asistente en un Laboratorio de análisis químicos y microbiológicos, el mayor WOW de mi vida lo viví aquí, en medio de tubos de ensayo, beakers, erlenmeyers me di cuenta de todo el potencial que tenía y que la creatividad y el entusiasmo serian mis dos grandes armas, esto sin saber que mi principal virtud es y será la resiliencia. En medio de ese empleo y contra mis deseos empecé a estudiar programación, en serio no me sentía plena a pesar de que me gustaba la tecnología, la Rita de ahora cree que en medio de tantos cambios ese rechazo era mi mecanismo de defensa ante todo lo que sucedía a mi alrededor.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>La Salida del Laboratorio y el cambio de Universidad</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Después de 2 años sufrí un despido sumamente injusto disfrazado de problemas económicos en la empresa, después de muchos años entendí que me hicieron un favor y que esa acción me dio las alas que necesitaba para incorporarme laboralmente en el mundo de la tecnología, mientras me sucedía eso y en medio de mi búsqueda por el verdadero gusto hacia lo que estaba estudiando, me cambie de Universidad, vaya decisión, al momento ha sido la mejor que he tomado en temas de educación, gracias a ese cambio encontré lo que realmente me gustaba y fue caldo de cultivo para lograr completar la ingeniería. Finalmente, después de todo esto, me fui incorporando en distintas organizaciones con diversos roles enfocados en tecnología.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Rita convertida en polvo y cenizas</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Después de un tiempo y terminando mi carrera decidí iniciar el viaje al negocio propio y el emprendimiento con 2 amigos. Juntos fundamos una empresa boutique de tecnología e innovación, en medio de nuestro empirismo en negocios logramos conocer a muchas personas y desarrollar muchos proyectos, fue aquí donde tuve mi primer acercamiento con WordPress en un meetup organizado por la comunidad de San José. En un momento determinado, mis 2 amigos abandonaron el proyecto y yo decidí continuar sola (grave error), la empresa siguió creciendo, seguí construyendo muchos más proyectos, incorpore más personas hasta que todo exploto en mi cara, era absolutamente insostenible, y sola, sin empleo, y sin esperanza alguna me convertí en polvo y cenizas creyendo que no podía levantarme.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>La docencia como arma de defensa</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>En el 2018, el director de carrera de la Universidad en la cual estudie me contacto para ofrecerme la oportunidad de ser profesora de Bases de Datos. Yo me negué, creyendo que no tenía las habilidades suficientes para asumir ese rol, ese pensamiento era producto de todo lo que estaba sucediendo con el emprendimiento, mi director insistió y yo acepté, y así fue como el 19 de mayo del 2018 impartí mi primera clase universitaria. Desde ese momento hasta ahora, 5 años después, puedo decir que fue una de las decisiones más inteligentes que pude tomar, la docencia me abrió las puertas a la posibilidad de renacer, reconstruirme y aprender de mis estudiantes. Fue la universidad la que en tiempos de dificultades me hizo crecer y levantarme de todo lo que estaba sucediendo, fue aquí donde entendí que la resiliencia es y será mi mayor virtud</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>WordPress ante mis ojos</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>En el 2019, en una reunión de un colectivo de mujeres, conocí a la persona que más me impulso en este mundo, mi gran amiga Ericka, ella me invito a ir a meetups de la comunidad de WordPress San José, yo sabía que debía hacer un esfuerzo adicional a solamente limitarme a ir a Meetups, así que gracias a ella y todo lo que me contaba sobre WordPress tome la iniciativa de buscar tutoriales y empezar a aprender por mi cuenta. Fue en este año donde desarrolle mi primer proyecto con WordPress y abrir las puertas a uno de los caminos laborales que más me han hecho sentir feliz y plena.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>WordPress salvo mi vida</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Emocionada por ese proyecto, seguí estudiando e involucrándome en la comunidad, participando en meetups y organizando WordCamps, a tal punto que este año 2023 he tenido la oportunidad de ser Lead Organizer del WordCamp San José 2023. En el 2019 en medio de tanta incertidumbre llego a mi un anuncio de empleo en GreenGeeks web hosting en el rol de WordPress Specialist, sin expectativa alguna envié mi currículo hasta llevarme la grata sorpresa que me contrataron en febrero del 2020.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>WordPress y la pandemia del COVID-19</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Fue gracias a esta oportunidad que potencialice completamente mi gusto y carrera hacia WordPress, logrando conseguir muchos proyectos para Fundaciones y ONG en los cuales por medio de WordPress podemos llegar a muchas personas interesadas. También fue en esta instancia en la cual logre participar por primera vez como speaker en un WordCamp, esto alimento mi cariño hacia WordPress y el deseo de poder seguir compartiendo con todas las personas que tenemos esta misma pasión.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress cambio mi vida, la puso en orden y me dio pautas para crecer personal y profesionalmente, la oportunidad que me dio el Universo se llama WordPress y toda mi vida estaré agradecida por eso.</p>\n<p>The post <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/about-how-wordpress-saved-my-life/\">About how WordPress saved my life. &#8211; Sobre como WordPress me salvo la vida</a> appeared first on <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://heropress.com\">HeroPress</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 24 May 2023 12:30:01 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Rita Robles Loaiza\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}s:4:\"type\";i:128;s:7:\"headers\";O:48:\"WpOrg\\Requests\\Utility\\CaseInsensitiveDictionary\":1:{s:7:\"\0*\0data\";a:8:{s:6:\"server\";s:5:\"nginx\";s:4:\"date\";s:29:\"Thu, 15 Jun 2023 18:57:52 GMT\";s:12:\"content-type\";s:8:\"text/xml\";s:13:\"last-modified\";s:29:\"Thu, 15 Jun 2023 18:30:30 GMT\";s:4:\"vary\";s:15:\"Accept-Encoding\";s:15:\"x-frame-options\";s:10:\"SAMEORIGIN\";s:16:\"content-encoding\";s:4:\"gzip\";s:4:\"x-nc\";s:9:\"HIT ord 2\";}}s:5:\"build\";s:14:\"20230615184936\";}', 'no');
